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Thread: Options at Left Tackle

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    Starks was drafted by Colbert and was part of 2 SB winning teams. Over the years, Colbert dished out some nice cash to Starks. He played here for 8 years and I think he started for 7 of them.

    I'm pretty sure Colbert didn't have a dislike for him and we all Ben's feelings about Starks. I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe that Colbert wasn't interested in replacing Guy Whimper with Starks after San Diego cut him especially considering the affordability factor.
    Starks was never a long term concern for the Steelers...the cash was paid out in one year contracts so that they didn't commit to him long term...

  2. #52
    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    You know this is a Tomlin ego issue how eaxctly???
    I don't, it's my opinion, no way to prove that, but some facts point to a rift between the two at the very least. Max was serviceable last year and Guy Whimper isn't even a thought at replacing a completely over matched Mike Adams. So we have a guy that the coaches won't put into a game, unless, of course forced to by having multiple injuries to linemen in the same game, but they wouldn't bring back Max who at the very least is good friends with Ben.

    It's my opinion, I have no idea if it's Mike Tomlin's ego, stubbornness or some other reason that Max wasn't a thought to be brought back. You have to admit, there's something there though, otherwise why do you sign last year's lowest rated tackle and then ensure that he doesn't play by not preparing him?

    I guess it could be Bicknell as well and maybe Tomlin doesn't have anything to say about it.

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  3. #53
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    I don't, it's my opinion, no way to prove that, but some facts point to a rift between the two at the very least. Max was serviceable last year and Guy Whimper isn't even a thought at replacing a completely over matched Mike Adams. So we have a guy that the coaches won't put into a game, unless, of course forced to by having multiple injuries to linemen in the same game, but they wouldn't bring back Max who at the very least is good friends with Ben.

    It's my opinion, I have no idea if it's Mike Tomlin's ego, stubbornness or some other reason that Max wasn't a thought to be brought back. You have to admit, there's something there though, otherwise why do you sign last year's lowest rated tackle and then ensure that he doesn't play by not preparing him?

    I guess it could be Bicknell as well and maybe Tomlin doesn't have anything to say about it.

    Pappy
    It's common sense but common sense isn't so common around here. This was going on before Bicknell came into the picture (i.e. with Jonathan Scott).

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    I don't, it's my opinion, no way to prove that, but some facts point to a rift between the two at the very least. Max was serviceable last year and Guy Whimper isn't even a thought at replacing a completely over matched Mike Adams. So we have a guy that the coaches won't put into a game, unless, of course forced to by having multiple injuries to linemen in the same game, but they wouldn't bring back Max who at the very least is good friends with Ben.

    It's my opinion, I have no idea if it's Mike Tomlin's ego, stubbornness or some other reason that Max wasn't a thought to be brought back. You have to admit, there's something there though, otherwise why do you sign last year's lowest rated tackle and then ensure that he doesn't play by not preparing him?

    I guess it could be Bicknell as well and maybe Tomlin doesn't have anything to say about it.

    Pappy
    I suspect there was some sort of power struggle between Colbert and Tomlin early on because the team transition tagged and franchised Max and then signed him to a big contract. And all the while, it seemed like Tomlin wanted someone different because he ended up starting Colon over Starks amidst all of this.

    Something wasn't right during these years. Maybe Tomlin thought they shoulda kept Faneca. We were doing all kinds of things that don't make sense in retrospect. Extending Simmons. Bringing in Mahan. Losing Faneca. Paying a fortune for a guy that Tomlin tried to turn into a backup.

    Then years later they tried to move on without Max only to bring him back to save the line. And even again this year, doing the same thing and handing the position over to Gilby/Adams without any competition and look how that's turned out. The line has been such a cluster fudge thoughout Tomlin's entire run here, something has to be wrong. And to Max's credit, he went for huge stretches against really good pass rushers without giving up sacks. He was the most consistent linemen during Tomlin's time, but for some reason Tomlin always seemed to want to keep him off the field. We'll never know what the issue was, but there had to be one given the way this all played out since 2007. It's just not logical.

  5. #55
    Not signing Max Starks was not the problem.

    Not replacing him sure as heck is.

    NDIANAPOLIS -- The Steelers have placed the franchise tag on offensive tackle Max Starks, a move that will keep him from becoming an unrestricted free agent and guarantee him $8.451 million in salary -- the average of the NFL's top five offensive linemen -- in the 2009 season.The Steelers will try to work out a long-term deal with Starks, a No. 3 draft choice in 2004 who started 11 games last season at left tackle.

    Uh! Colbert exploded on his agent when he refused to sign the offered longer term contract.

    I used to listen to a podcast on ESPN in 2008. Starks was the weekly MVP or O lineman of the week or something at least 3 times.
    Where the idea he was not a very very good player comes from I have no idea. Sometimes I think some Steeler fans have rocks in their heads.

  6. #56
    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyplay1 View Post
    Not signing Max Starks was not the problem.

    Not replacing him sure as heck is.

    NDIANAPOLIS -- The Steelers have placed the franchise tag on offensive tackle Max Starks, a move that will keep him from becoming an unrestricted free agent and guarantee him $8.451 million in salary -- the average of the NFL's top five offensive linemen -- in the 2009 season.The Steelers will try to work out a long-term deal with Starks, a No. 3 draft choice in 2004 who started 11 games last season at left tackle.

    Uh! Colbert exploded on his agent when he refused to sign the offered longer term contract.

    I used to listen to a podcast on ESPN in 2008. Starks was the weekly MVP or O lineman of the week or something at least 3 times.
    Where the idea he was not a very very good player comes from I have no idea. Sometimes I think some Steeler fans have rocks in their heads.
    Once they didn't adequately replace Starks, then I would I say it became a problem not signing him. No problems not signing him long term, etc., but certainly the coaching staff has been around football long enough to realize that Mike Adams isn't the solution based on performance in the preseason and thus far in the regular season and to top it off, that Guy Whimper is not only not the solution, but he shouldn't have even been a consideration. They think so little of him that they don't even prepare him for a game in the slightest and then after an injury (Foster) and a complete mismatch they have no option but to let Adams finish the game, because Whimper is prepared below the line (Tomlin's words), it just doesn't make sense to me at all.

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    Once they didn't adequately replace Starks, then I would I say it became a problem not signing him. No problems not signing him long term, etc., but certainly the coaching staff has been around football long enough to realize that Mike Adams isn't the solution based on performance in the preseason and thus far in the regular season and to top it off, that Guy Whimper is not only not the solution, but he shouldn't have even been a consideration. They think so little of him that they don't even prepare him for a game in the slightest and then after an injury (Foster) and a complete mismatch they have no option but to let Adams finish the game, because Whimper is prepared below the line (Tomlin's words), it just doesn't make sense to me at all.

    Pappy
    There is a difference between "we didn't prepare him" and "he wasn't prepared"...

    It is similar to learning and teaching...just because a teacher taught something, that doesn't mean someone else learned it...

    There are two aspects here...

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Starks was never a long term concern for the Steelers...the cash was paid out in one year contracts so that they didn't commit to him long term...
    He actually signed a 4 year deal at one point worth $26.3 million, with a significant amount of guaranteed money.

  9. #59
    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    There is a difference between "we didn't prepare him" and "he wasn't prepared"...

    It is similar to learning and teaching...just because a teacher taught something, that doesn't mean someone else learned it...

    There are two aspects here...
    Either way, why is Whimper still on the team? They don't prepare him and effectively leave the Steelers with one backup lineman on game day or he doesn't prepare himself and the Steelers are left with one backup lineman on game day. While I understand the differences semantically, the result is exactly the same, the Steelers as a team were unprepared to replace two linemen during the same game.

    If Guy Whimper makes it to the next game I really have to question the coaching staff and FO about their decision making. How do you take a roster spot if you aren't going to put him in the game in an emergency?

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    Either way, why is Whimper still on the team? They don't prepare him and effectively leave the Steelers with one backup lineman on game day or he doesn't prepare himself and the Steelers are left with one backup lineman on game day. While I understand the differences semantically, the result is exactly the same, the Steelers as a team were unprepared to replace two linemen during the same game.

    If Guy Whimper makes it to the next game I really have to question the coaching staff and FO about their decision making. How do you take a roster spot if you aren't going to put him in the game in an emergency?

    Pappy
    Because it wasn't an emergency...

    If another lineman had been lost to injury, I'm sure Whimper would have been trotted out there because the Steelers had no better alternative on the roster...

    Adams, who got whupped for 4 quarters, was still considered a better alternative by the coaches than Whimper, apparently...

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