So could Barry Switzer. The team was already there. He just needed not to screw it up. The idea that the Steelers don't allow the HC to help draft is just ridiculous. I guess Colbert just forgot how to draft when Tomlin got here. I guess Tomlin didn't go to Timmons pro-day? It was Colbert who picked him without listening to the coach that WAS THERE. Tomlin also said that Hood had NO holes. But of course he would have drafted him it must have been that ****ing Colbert idiot that did it all on his own without any input from the HC. Just ridiculous.
Originally Posted by Captain Lemming
Switzer took over a reining champion. He went to ONE SB. Then records of 10-6, and 6-10.
Originally Posted by Vader
Tomlin took a team that won a SB, then was 8-8 under Cowher.
It took Tomlin 6 years to drop to the 8-8 record he inherited, no comparison to Switzer whose team began nosediving soon after he got it.
You wanna blame Ben's injury for the 8-8? What happenned to the DEFENSE.
It was one of the worst DEFENSES of the Ben era (9th) in that 8-8 season.
Under Tomlin the DEFENSE went from 9th ranked in Cowhers 8-8 season to number one in Tomlin season 1. In season 2 of Tomlin the defense was number one AGAIN. That matches the number of times (2) that Cowher had a number one defense in 13 years. But we are just talking Tomlins first two seasons. Tomlin would be number one FOUR times. In total Tomlin has had the number one DEFENSE more times than ANY Steeler coach. Nolls steel curtain featuring FOUR HOFers was the number one defense three times, Cowher's twice. AND Tomlins defense was number one FOUR times in only SIX years. And PLEASE dont talk turnovers because BC had Rod stkin Woodson. Also Cowher and Tomlins early teams created fumbles with bone crushing hits. These are illegal in todays NFL.
So Tomlin took a team in decline DEFENSIVELY (never mind Ben) and brought it to elite status in ONE SEASON while losing Cowhers best pass rusher. In fact Tomlin LOST BOTH of Cowhers SB outside linebackers. One of them (Porter) WAS THE MOST VALUABLE DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THE PLAYOFFS leading to the SB. He replaced them with Harrison (who Cowher cut repeatedly and never gave a chance) and drafted Woodley. The impact of those two were keys to the defensive resurgence. Ike Taylor was an inconsistent joke under Cowher who never showed confidence in him. Ike has been MUCH BETTER under Tomlins coaching style.
The draft is important in winning football games but I'm so sick of hearing about how bad our drafts are in comparison to Tomlin vs Cowher. Who cares? REALLY! The Steelers win because we are smart with our players after the draft. Do we pay for HIGH PRICE guys EVER? NOPE! We take Average players who are CHEAP AS HECK and they learn a system. To fault our offensive system is something we can debate under Haley and i'll be at the top of the list but to say we draft poorly is really a NONFACTOR. If HOOD, HEYWARD, WORILDS or anyone else was amazing they would be LET GO anyway because we couldnt afford them. I for one love that AVERAGE PLAYER who is above the line and making little money. When those BIG $$ players get hurt you better have those above average guys on the bench ready to step it up. Lets go over some high price guys.
James Harrison - What has he done in 3 games for 4 million? compared to Jarvis Jones.
Santonio Holmes - WHat has he really done since the SB catch? How many millions did he get with the Jets? Step in BROWN, WALLACE, and SANDERS bargin price at the time and huge payout.
William Gay - Let go because of price and back at a bargain price.
Larry Foote - see note above. A team who never believed in bringing players back realize that cheap price for a player knowing the system is SMART.
Randle EL - same as above
Faneca - Was still SOLID after leaving the Stelers but how many SB's did we appear in after he left again?
I'll let you guys post more but this franchise WINS because we find the value player who buys into a system and once they get too big for themselves we let them go! We have done this for how many years now? It has nothing to do with Cowher vs Tomlin. It's the PITTSBURGH STEELERS and why I love them. The better our drafts the more risk we have of losing those players IMO and that's exactly why teams like the cowboys lose all the darn time. Case in point play FANDUEL or any cap fantasy league one time and draft a team with just 60K. Doesnt matter who we draft, we only have so much money to spend and the Steelers have been the Steelers because we know when to say GOOD BYE! It might cost us this year but this formula is smart and its proven to WIN! We spend every penny of our budget and every year we talk about cutting someone to make room under the cap. We can't be an ALL PRO team every year. Would you guys pay that much for Wallace? Is it costing us right now? maybe but it was a smart call and has nothing to do with the draft. WE DRAFTED HIM! We drafted a player who wanted top 5 WR money. Great job STEELERS! By drating awesome hurt us in this situation did it not? THINK ABOUT IT.
AHMAD BRADSHAW cost the Colts how much? Where is he going to be sitting this week? BENCH! Where is our ROOKIE? On the bench! How much did we save? That allowed us to get our backup Center! SMART BUSINESS 101.
Last edited by hausparty; 09-22-2013 at 05:17 AM.
I agree with much of this Shawn. I did not think that it was a huge deal when guys like Farrior (undisputed leader of the D), Hines, Smith, etc. all left around the same time, but I look back on that as a turning point. Not only does a team need its leaders, but those leaders have to be leading in the right direction. You can't have a leader who sets poor examples - not practicing hard, taking foolish personal foul penalties, whining too much etc. We had a solid core of characters, and I'm not sure where that is right now.
Originally Posted by Shawn
And this is regardless of whether they are Cowher guys or Tomlin guys.
I was about to make this same point. In the past, it seemed we always had the ability to lock players up favorably (e.g. home team discount). You make great points about letting guys go at the right time. I think one point about the drafting recently, is that we've taken guys from major schools who were perceived as "slipping", which aren't the Steeler way necessarily. I'm talking Limas Sweed (Texas), Mike Adams (Ohio St.), Bruce Davis (UCLA)... IMO, guys from major schools are, for the most part, what they are. In the case of Sweed for example, 80+ teams passed on this guy with the supposed talent that he had. His tape isn't hidden.
Originally Posted by hausparty
Those selections should be replaced by selections from Maine, Kent, Fort Valley St, etc. Gems we've "uncovered" through actual scouting (rather than off Mel Kiper's Big Board). I think there is a flaw in the draft strategy lately.
There is a difference between the HC having input and helping to the notion that he is the man.
Originally Posted by Vader
Going back to Cowher. Cowher became the coach in '92, where he worked under Tom Donahoe. After winning a power struggle, Cowher essentially hired Colbert to be his own boss. So, after 8 seasons I would think that it is fair to think that Cowher was the loudest voice in the room, with only someone named Rooney holding veto power (which apparently happened in 2004).
You hear posters refer to draft picks by the coach. "Timmons was Tomlin's pick". Timmons was drafted in Tomlin's first off-season, into a D that was not his design. I would understand if Tomlin gave his opinion, but I would not think that the Steelers FO allowed Tomlin the ultimate say over this pick. As far as hierarchy goes, IMO Tomlin still would rank behind Colbert in the draft room, whereas I believe that Colbert was behind Cowher.
Bingo... every player that slipped to us hasn't lived up to our hype. They slip for a reason... other teams see flaws and we shouldn't feel "lucky" when a guy we swear will be long gone ends up available when we pick.
Originally Posted by Shoe
The Steelers can only pick the players available on the board at the time...
Originally Posted by feltdizz
They aren't forced to pick those players though...
Originally Posted by Slapstick
This is a great point. Wonder if we've had any major scouting changes over the last few years? Perhaps that's got a lot to do with what's happening.
Originally Posted by Shoe