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Thread: Not good in Pittsburgh

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post

    Regardless the Rooneys know who is responsible, so if a move is made my guess is that who had final say in building this team will bear the burden if it continues south.
    I'd guess the Rooney's have to know whats going on and it'd be interesting to see someone interview them to get the real story. Not that they'd ever tell it. My suspicion would be that Dan might be the only one to truly know what's going on and would be the one who could most likely set everything straight if he desired.

  2. #22
    Pro Bowler Steelhere10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    Let me clarify what the poster originally said....It's not reportedly. It's a fact.

    Tomlin has a say in player personnel, coaching personnel, playcalling, etc. If he wants to change any of these, he has the power. Stop making excuses for the guy and face the fact that Tomlin's early success was greatly attributed to Cowher's players and the locker room leadership that guys like Keisel, Troy, Farrior, Aaron Smith, Hampton, Ben, Hines, Starks, etc provided. Most people could have stepped off the street and been successful running a team loaded with those type of players. As the players started to retire/leave, so did the talent (& leadership). Why can't people see this when the writing is on the wall?
    Anybody can be successful, yet it took Cowher a dozen years to do what Tomlin did in three. And Cowher have always had a talented team.

  3. #23
    Administrator steelz09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelhere10 View Post
    Anybody can be successful, yet it took Cowher a dozen years to do what Tomlin did in three. And Cowher have always had a talented team.
    Cowher's biggest flaw was always the QB position and much of that was his fault. No doubt. When that finally got resolved, you saw what happened.... a SB. Tomlin was hand delivered a team full of solid players, leadership AND a franchise QB. He didn't have to build a damn thing. He was given the keys to a damn good team and didn't have to do much except to sit back and let his leaders run the show and not screw it up. He did that and was successful. Now, it's becoming clear that he can't build a team even with a franchise QB. The results are crystal clear.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by steelz09 View Post
    Cowher's biggest flaw was always the QB position and much of that was his fault. No doubt. When that finally got resolved, you saw what happened.... a SB. Tomlin was hand delivered a team full of solid players, leadership AND a franchise QB. He didn't have to build a damn thing. He was given the keys to a damn good team and didn't have to do much except to sit back and let his leaders run the show and not screw it up. He did that and was successful. Now, it's becoming clear that he can't build a team even with a franchise QB. The results are crystal clear.
    You are discussing two different functions. Coaching versus building a team.
    Do not forget Tomlin took over an 8-8 team NOT a SB team. He did a great job of coaching that team back to the Superbowl twice

    The Steelers HAVE made poor choices in recent years in team building. THAT responsibility traditionally lies with the GM using coaches feedback. This is why some powerful coaches have INSISTED on being GM too. Parcels famously quipped "if I'm gonna cook the meal I want to be able to buy the groceries."

    While I dont KNOW this to be the case, with the Steelers it seems likely considering Tomlin was a rookie coach.

    Nevertheless, if you want to blame Tomlin for the talent, if you think Tomlin is to blame and Colbert is a great GM, give Colbert the final say, problem solved. Talent not coaching is the problem. You essentially acknowledge this in your post saying Tomlin cannot BUILD a team.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 09-21-2013 at 12:09 AM.

  5. #25
    Pro Bowler Steelhere10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    You are discussing two different functions. Coaching versus building a team.
    Do not forget Tomlin took over an 8-8 team NOT a SB team. He did a great job of coaching that team back to the Superbowl twice

    The Steelers HAVE made poor choices in recent years in team building. THAT responsibility traditionally lies with the GM using coaches feedback. This is why some powerful coaches have INSISTED on being GM too. Parcels famously quipped "if I'm gonna cook the meal I want to be able to buy the groceries."

    While I dont KNOW this to be the case, with the Steelers it seems likely considering Tomlin was a rookie coach.

    Nevertheless, if you want to blame Tomlin for the talent, if you think Tomlin is to blame and Colbert is a great GM, give Colbert the final say, problem solved. Talent not coaching is the problem. You essentially acknowledge this in your post saying Tomlin cannot BUILD a team.
    Nice post.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Amazing we did not see this brilliant psycho analysis when Tomlin took us to two Super Bowls and one of the best winning percetages among active coaches.

    The problem is a lack of talent and a lack of options to fix the talent because of poor management of the salary cap. That is a Colbert problem not a Tomlin problem. The 2008 and 2009 drafts killed us and again that is on Colbert.

    impossible!

    go back and read all the posts after every round of our drafts the last 5 years. i bet you 90% of the posters on here ranted and raved about our picks. the phrases, 'steal of the round', 'steal of the draft', 'instant starter', 'probowler', 'great depth with future starter', ' etc etc etc.
    and seeing when the 10% claimed they didnt like the pick, the 90% told them they are not 'real' fans and that tomlin and the front office know more than they do.
    when a player works out, its tomlins pick. when it doesnt, its colberts.

  7. #27
    Hall of Famer SteelCrazy's Avatar
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    There's not a problem until 0-2 turns into 2-8. Lets see how the next few weeks pan out before we start throwing coaches and GM's off of bridges.
    Last edited by SteelCrazy; 09-21-2013 at 07:14 PM.

  8. #28
    Ok, lets cut Don a break. He had a point, then strayed from it. I believe he is actually onto something. I have always been a Tomlin fan. I believe he is a good face for the organization, intelligent and well spoken. I think he also knows football. But, Don said something that struck a chord. Many of the problems began when Cowher's guys started to retire. That leadership void was noted by many. The question that pops into my mind, is where are the real leaders of this squad? Where are the guys who will bring a Super Bowl mentality to the next gen of player? And what is Tomlin's responsibility in drafting and growing up leaders on this squad? I believe that is a relevant question.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    You are discussing two different functions. Coaching versus building a team.
    Do not forget Tomlin took over an 8-8 team NOT a SB team. He did a great job of coaching that team back to the Superbowl twice

    The Steelers HAVE made poor choices in recent years in team building. THAT responsibility traditionally lies with the GM using coaches feedback. This is why some powerful coaches have INSISTED on being GM too. Parcels famously quipped "if I'm gonna cook the meal I want to be able to buy the groceries."

    While I dont KNOW this to be the case, with the Steelers it seems likely considering Tomlin was a rookie coach.

    Nevertheless, if you want to blame Tomlin for the talent, if you think Tomlin is to blame and Colbert is a great GM, give Colbert the final say, problem solved. Talent not coaching is the problem. You essentially acknowledge this in your post saying Tomlin cannot BUILD a team.
    He took over a team one year removed from a SB with a franchise QB. Who was on that SB that wasn't on the one Tomlin inherited? Plus he gets James Harrison finally understanding the playbook. I get sick of people bringing up Tomlin inherited an 8-8 team. He got a team that had it's QB almost get killed in a motorcycle accident, emergency appendectomy surgery, and a concussion early in the year. They rallied to a 6-2 finish. He didn't take over some run of the mill team. Almost every core player on the 08 SB team was drafted before Tomlin arrived.

    Also for some reason Colbert forgot how to draft when Tomlin arrived. I've discussed this before. They go from drafting great players like Troy, Miller, Ben etc.. and start drafting bums like Hood. I know Tomlin has input because I saw him at Timmons pro-day gushing like a kid in a candy store. Then at the draft they run the card up to take him. The entire philosophy changes when Tomlin arrives.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    He took over a team one year removed from a SB with a franchise QB. Who was on that SB that wasn't on the one Tomlin inherited? Plus he gets James Harrison finally understanding the playbook. I get sick of people bringing up Tomlin inherited an 8-8 team. He got a team that had it's QB almost get killed in a motorcycle accident, emergency appendectomy surgery, and a concussion early in the year. They rallied to a 6-2 finish. He didn't take over some run of the mill team. Almost every core player on the 08 SB team was drafted before Tomlin arrived.

    Also for some reason Colbert forgot how to draft when Tomlin arrived. I've discussed this before. They go from drafting great players like Troy, Miller, Ben etc.. and start drafting bums like Hood. I know Tomlin has input because I saw him at Timmons pro-day gushing like a kid in a candy store. Then at the draft they run the card up to take him.
    Yes Ben got into an accident. Why? He IGNORED Cowher, no respect. People attack Tomlin for not screamming at his players? You mentioned Harrison? Really? Maybe JUST maybe had Harrisons been given a chance instead of being on the bench after getting cut repeatedly, we MIGHT have been better than 8-8. No but Clark Haggins was too good to displace?

    As I stated, if you think Tomlin builds the team now (I dont know why we need a GM if he does the GMs job). But for the sake of argument lets say Tomlin chose these players despite Colbert. All the a Rooneys need to do is give final say to Colbert. YOU SAID he coached "Cowhers team" to the SB, so Tomlin can coach a team to a championship. Problem solved.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 09-21-2013 at 09:03 PM.

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