Pouncey twins support Hernandez

[flippy]

The home protection aspect, and also hunting, are more what the gun laws are about. Our country was founded on principles where government was meant to be small and work for you. It wasn't created so you can have guns to protect your family and provide food from hunting. Lots of people eat only wild game and fish and grow their own vegetables.

It's been a long time since I've studied American history, but from what I remember, the founding father were the ones that owned all the land and had all the vested interests in America. And my take on the Constitution was that it was written to protect their vested interests in American society. And when it comes to the 2nd amendment, it was all about protecting these interests from the British loyalists.

Somehow, we've collectively romanticized the Constitution into a sort of religion and have tried to morph those interests into our own vested interests. And I think that comes from our own pride and need to feel important. The Constitution protects the property rights of the rich to this day. It's great to feel like it was designed for the well being and protection of all of us. And to a degree, it's worked in that way and has kept a somewhat civil society. But the second amendment almost seems silly to a degree today. Where is this invisible militia taking on the Federal and State governments to keep them in check? If you look at the bills that are passed on a daily basis, they all have loads of crap that the majority of Americans don't need/want. And the things society does want don't always matter to the legislators. The Constitution is now just a slick way to enslave the average American to the wealthy.

And life is generally good for most, so why rock the boat?

[Mister Pittsburgh]

It's been a long time since I've studied American history, but from what I remember, the founding father were the ones that owned all the land and had all the vested interests in America. And my take on the Constitution was that it was written to protect their vested interests in American society. And when it comes to the 2nd amendment, it was all about protecting these interests from the British loyalists.

Somehow, we've collectively romanticized the Constitution into a sort of religion and have tried to morph those interests into our own vested interests. And I think that comes from our own pride and need to feel important. The Constitution protects the property rights of the rich to this day. It's great to feel like it was designed for the well being and protection of all of us. And to a degree, it's worked in that way and has kept a somewhat civil society. But the second amendment almost seems silly to a degree today. Where is this invisible militia taking on the Federal and State governments to keep them in check? If you look at the bills that are passed on a daily basis, they all have loads of crap that the majority of Americans don't need/want. And the things society does want don't always matter to the legislators. The Constitution is now just a slick way to enslave the average American to the wealthy.

And life is generally good for most, so why rock the boat?

think of frontier times and the great western push. Thinking along the lines of little house on the prairie, the movie 'far and away', the great depression when people were shooting and eating ground hogs and racoons and stuff. Great depression style scenario could easily return when the dollar is no longer the global currency used.

believe it or not, but there are a lot of folks that still live very rural lives.

[feltdizz]

How bout we all agree to agree, or agree to disagree, whichever, and get back to talking Steelers talk. I'd buy any of my Planetsteelers brethren a soda or beer anytime

IPA please

[feltdizz]

3rd link that was there when googling 'george zimmerman size'. No agenda on my part man. You're the one throwing 80 extra pounds on the man. I had 3 buddies in college that joined a boxing gym for 2 years of 'boxing training'. It consisted of running on a treadmill, jumping rope, hitting bags, and lifting weights. After 3 years none of the bunch were any more skilled in fighting. Just because you 'train' in something doesn't mean you are good at it, especially something like getting in a real life fight where the bag attacks you.

trayvon Martin had quite the extensive fist fight history, that wasn't allowed to be heard though.

Also, click on any article about this with a comment section and every one of them is crazy, kind of like what this has become. People with different opinions on this. Have seen the white and hispanics somewhat split, leaning to the self defense for Zimmerman side. I have only seen one black person say they felt self defense for Zimmerman was justified.

Nice to see as soon as someone points out your facts being wrong you start trying to paint them as racist though...posting all those 'crazy links'. I don't even know what the hell symbols or t- shirts or whatever you pointed out on the one link I accidentally posted up are or mean.

I have talked to a lot of my brethren and while most don't think it was justified there are some who understand the not guilty verdict based on the evidence and the way the trial played out.

I'm not one who thinks it was justified. We used to live in a world where a person could take a azzz whooping like a man and call it a day. I know kids are unpredictable and there is always a threat of a weapon but if you go looking for trouble or follow someone with the thought of them being a criminal you should really have a good reason to pull out a weapon. Based on the evidence and the way it played out I don't think the shooting was justified at all. I didn't see a broken jaw or serious injuries on GZ. It looked like he was in a fight and he was losing...I seriously doubt Trayvon had death on his mind when they were fighting. This law pretty much means anytime a fight occurs and a person feels like they are going to lose they can pull out a gun. That is a scary IMO.

As far as GZ's weight. I threw an extra 75 pounds on him because he gained 120 pounds. LOL.. but all the stories/links I found had the police report at 200 pounds and 5'8"

So.. we will agree to disagree.

[feltdizz]

You're right- difficult to understand. Can understand how your current gun laws reflect the history of the US. Much like Chadman is sure the current Italian laws cater for their ability to carry a sharp sword & feed Christians to lions etc..in order to reflect their history..

The 'fundamental belief that people should be able to protect themselves from an oppressive government' is giving each individual the ability to shoot their non-government neighbour without pause. If your laws want to cater for the right to open rebellion against your government, that's ok, but it doesn't explain why anyone should feel the need to own an Uzi because the guy next door might be carrying a Magnum..

Put it this way- it's more likely you'll get a pro-gun argument that talks about the need to protect 'your family against home invasion' than an argument that talks about the need to take out the government because they are oppressing the people.

Maybe Chadman is looking at it the wrong way... but it all seems nuts all the same.

Might go drive on the wrong side of the road to clear thy head...

great post. Some will speak of the 2nd amendment or hunting but this isn't what most are using the 2nd amendment for when they stockpile weapons. There is a reason our country has 3rd world stats when it comes to gun violence. Everyone says Obama is out for the guns... but in reality he has been the best gun seller in the history of American Presidents.

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Based on the evidence and the way it played out I don't think the shooting was justified at all. I didn't see a broken jaw or serious injuries on GZ. It looked like he was in a fight and he was losing...I seriously doubt Trayvon had death on his mind when they were fighting.

If my "lean" scenario is correct, I think TM probably DID have "death on his mind when they were fighting." The truth is, neither of us knows what TM had on his mind...and neither did GZ. He testified that TM said he was going to kill him...if someone I didn't know jumped me and told me he intended to kill me, I'd probably take him at his word. Now, who knows if TM really said that? But even if he didn't, should GZ have waited until his jaw was broken, or he was knocked unconscious, or otherwise rendered incapable of defending himself? If somebody I didn't know jumped me, punched me in the face, took me down to the ground, and began beating my head on the concrete, I don't know that I would wait to get beaten up worse before using my weapon. Maybe I'm not patient enough...but I don't think I'm as trusting as you would be, either.

Look, I'm not holding GZ up to be some kind of angel. He could have--and should have--avoided the whole situation.

[feltdizz]

If my "lean" scenario is correct, I think TM probably DID have "death on his mind when they were fighting." The truth is, neither of us knows what TM had on his mind...and neither did GZ. He testified that TM said he was going to kill him...if someone I didn't know jumped me and told me he intended to kill me, I'd probably take him at his word. Now, who knows if TM really said that? But even if he didn't, should GZ have waited until his jaw was broken, or he was knocked unconscious, or otherwise rendered incapable of defending himself? If somebody I didn't know jumped me, punched me in the face, took me down to the ground, and began beating my head on the concrete, I don't know that I would wait to get beaten up worse before using my weapon. Maybe I'm not patient enough...but I don't think I'm as trusting as you would be, either.

Look, I'm not holding GZ up to be some kind of angel. He could have--and should have--avoided the whole situation.

I don't think Trayvon had lean in his system.. just a small amount of THC.

"I'm going to kill you" ....if everyone shot someone over those words before or during a fight when nothing but fist were involved we would run out of bullets in a week.

I've heard people say "I'm going to kill you" before a fight or during fights at least 100 times.. not one time did I see anyone kill another person with their bare hands.

I don't trust anyone... but I also don't believe most people when they say they are going to kill someone during a heated argument. Now, if a weapon is in hand then I certainly will believe them but people say all sorts of crazy things during heated exchanges.

Also remember.. this was a grown man, a stranger who never said he was neighborhood watch, following a 17 year old through the neighborhood. I would have said some crazy things as well because I'm thinking some creepy dude is following me.

[feltdizz]

Also.. It's my understanding Lean/purple drank/sizzurp makes you lazy and lethargic. It was started in Houston and DJ's made records called chopped and screwed when on it. Those records are reeeeeeal sloooow because the drink makes you drowsy.

Look on youtube and see kids on lean or sizzurp. They aren't jumping around hyped up... they are damn near in a coma.

I'm not a doctor though so who knows.. but from all the talk I've heard about it the side effects are laziness. The QB from the Raida's is a prime example of what lean does to a person.

[Oviedo]

I don't think Trayvon had lean in his system.. just a small amount of THC.

"I'm going to kill you" ....if everyone shot someone over those words before or during a fight when nothing but fist were involved we would run out of bullets in a week.

I've heard people say "I'm going to kill you" before a fight or during fights at least 100 times.. not one time did I see anyone kill another person with their bare hands.

I don't trust anyone... but I also don't believe most people when they say they are going to kill someone during a heated argument. Now, if a weapon is in hand then I certainly will believe them but people say all sorts of crazy things during heated exchanges.

Also remember.. this was a grown man, a stranger who never said he was neighborhood watch, following a 17 year old through the neighborhood. I would have said some crazy things as well because I'm thinking some creepy dude is following me.

I would go straight home and not confront him let alone throw a punch at him, but hey that is me because my parents taught me not to get into situations that you couldn't control.

[Shoe]

I was trying to stay out of this TM/GZ stuff, because this is a football forum. But just wanted to offer up a perspective, from someone who knows very little about the case and what I've learned in reading this thread.

1) The perception of TM was that of an "innocent" kid (i.e. killed buying Skittles). That doesn't seem to be the case. He wasn't a criminal, but it did seem like he was one of those kids (not unlike any other teenage kid) who carries a certain chip on their shoulder.

2) GZ was portrayed as an overzealous wannabe type, and it would appear that description is still accurate.

3) I still don't know many of the KNOWN particulars of the incident. I know (from reading) that 911 told him to chill out and don't pursue. In terms of the actual fight, I wonder what is actually known. It seems fairly apparent that there was a fight in which GZ was on his back (i.e. blood on back of head). In that regard, whatever he did can be justified IMO.

I don't understand why this is a racial case though.