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Thread: The Enigmatic Game of Ben Roethlisberger

  1. #11
    Pro Bowler skyhawk's Avatar
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    And someone mentioned on this thread of finally let Ben win the game early on instead of late game heroics!! Abso-freaking-lutely!!

  2. #12
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    Understanding Ben Roethlisberger: The league's non-statistical passer baffles most

    There was recently a version of the Battle of Gettysburg on the site. While it didn't center around any one particular topic (there were dozens), the premise was the use of statistics to quantify the career of Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

    While nowhere near statistical ineptitude, Roethlisberger's passing yards and passer rating do not clearly show viewers the kind of player he is. Despite ranking well in both areas over the span of his career, they don't speak to the difficulty of stopping Roethlisberger as an individual.

    Sam Monson of Pro Football Focus recently wrote a feature on this topic, and in doing it, he accomplished something few outside of those who root feverishly for Roethlisberger can; he got it.

    In his article titled "The Enigmatic Game of Ben Roethlisberger," he takes an unusual path for a PFF feature, largely free-written without statistics. He makes it work to a high level, and that's exactly his point.

    Roethlisberger is an enigma, both for fans and defenses.

    Monson highlights the infamous touchdown pass to Heath Miller against the Cowboys in Week 15 - after the game, Roethlisberger would exclaim in frustration they had the wrong play called. Monson didn't mention that piece, possibly due to it not having a direct connection to what he was writing. I only bring it up because it puts into perspective some of Roethlisberger's brilliance.

    Roethlisberger's opinion was the play called in that particular spot was to exploit what was expected to be more of a prevention look from the Cowboys' defense. Roethlisberger noticed this wasn't the case, and basically went off script to make something happen.

    How often does he do that? We won't fully know. The result of the play Monson breaks down (very well) was a touchdown, therefore, it's hard to dispute he made a bad decision. But it's impossible to say going off schedule is a bad idea.

    How many other quarterbacks have that weapon in their arsenal?

    Some have said in the past players like Colin Kaepernick or Robert Griffin III have excelled at very early points in their careers due to gimmick offensive wrinkles inserted to exploit their ability to run from the pocket. Roethlisberger uses quickness, vision and guts to shift around the pocket (as Monson demonstrates on this play), climbing shrinking and moving laterally, until his team is in an advantageous position.

    Perhaps speed demons like RGIII and Kaepernick can scramble for a few yards on plays like this. Do they have the ability to stay in the pocket, all of it collapsing around him, hang onto the ball for 8.4 seconds, give hard pump fakes to freeze linebackers, who, by this point, have no idea what's going on, and wait to deliver a throw that results in six points?

    Maybe that's more of a rhetorical question, but on fourth-and-goal in the Super Bowl, Kaepernick saw a free rusher coming at him as soon as he got the ball, and he threw it to the corner, relying on wide receiver Michael Crabtree to make a play. He didn't.

    Roethlisberger, on that one particular play against Dallas, shook off and avoided several pass rushers, and delivered a great throw down the field.

    He got credit for a touchdown, but the fear of that play happening every time he drops back is what makes Roethlisberger a great player. It's also what makes him a two-time Super Bowl champion quarterback.

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...arterbacks-nfl
    Last edited by SteelCrazy; 07-05-2013 at 09:35 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCrazy View Post
    Understanding Ben Roethlisberger: The league's non-statistical passer baffles most

    There was recently a version of the Battle of Gettysburg on the site. While it didn't center around any one particular topic (there were dozens), the premise was the use of statistics to quantify the career of Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

    While nowhere near statistical ineptitude, Roethlisberger's passing yards and passer rating do not clearly show viewers the kind of player he is. Despite ranking well in both areas over the span of his career, they don't speak to the difficulty of stopping Roethlisberger as an individual.

    Sam Monson of Pro Football Focus recently wrote a feature on this topic, and in doing it, he accomplished something few outside of those who root feverishly for Roethlisberger can; he got it.

    In his article titled "The Enigmatic Game of Ben Roethlisberger," he takes an unusual path for a PFF feature, largely free-written without statistics. He makes it work to a high level, and that's exactly his point.

    Roethlisberger is an enigma, both for fans and defenses.

    Monson highlights the infamous touchdown pass to Heath Miller against the Cowboys in Week 15 - after the game, Roethlisberger would exclaim in frustration they had the wrong play called. Monson didn't mention that piece, possibly due to it not having a direct connection to what he was writing. I only bring it up because it puts into perspective some of Roethlisberger's brilliance.

    Roethlisberger's opinion was the play called in that particular spot was to exploit what was expected to be more of a prevention look from the Cowboys' defense. Roethlisberger noticed this wasn't the case, and basically went off script to make something happen.

    How often does he do that? We won't fully know. The result of the play Monson breaks down (very well) was a touchdown, therefore, it's hard to dispute he made a bad decision. But it's impossible to say going off schedule is a bad idea.

    How many other quarterbacks have that weapon in their arsenal?

    Some have said in the past players like Colin Kaepernick or Robert Griffin III have excelled at very early points in their careers due to gimmick offensive wrinkles inserted to exploit their ability to run from the pocket. Roethlisberger uses quickness, vision and guts to shift around the pocket (as Monson demonstrates on this play), climbing shrinking and moving laterally, until his team is in an advantageous position.

    Perhaps speed demons like RGIII and Kaepernick can scramble for a few yards on plays like this. Do they have the ability to stay in the pocket, all of it collapsing around him, hang onto the ball for 8.4 seconds, give hard pump fakes to freeze linebackers, who, by this point, have no idea what's going on, and wait to deliver a throw that results in six points?

    Maybe that's more of a rhetorical question, but on fourth-and-goal in the Super Bowl, Kaepernick saw a free rusher coming at him as soon as he got the ball, and he threw it to the corner, relying on wide receiver Michael Crabtree to make a play. He didn't.

    Roethlisberger, on that one particular play against Dallas, shook off and avoided several pass rushers, and delivered a great throw down the field.

    He got credit for a touchdown, but the fear of that play happening every time he drops back is what makes Roethlisberger a great player. It's also what makes him a two-time Super Bowl champion quarterback.

    http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...arterbacks-nfl

    There is nothing new added here. Every NFL QB has to deal with incorrect offensive play calls. That's why presnap defensive reads are so important. Rather than run the play, why not audible out into something that takes advantage of the defense? That is where a Brady or Manning excel. Brady and Manning also are likely to throw a ball away and move on the the next play. I suspect Ben seems to run the play called and just do what he did... try to make something happen. Both styles have been proven to win Superbowls, so I wouldn't say one is better than the other. However, Brady will be playing in his 13th season at the age of 36. My fear is Ben just won't get that far if he doesnt begin to change his style.

  4. #14
    Hall of Famer Flasteel's Avatar
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    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...les-afc-north/

    QB Pressure Profiles: AFC North
    Steve Palazzolo | July 4, 2013


    We’re back at it again with a deep dive into the PFF Database as we continue to reveal a plethora of numbers regarding pressure and its effect on the quarterback. To recap, in the last few months we’ve looked at pressure’s impact on the passer from different angles and from that data, drew the conclusion that the left tackle might be overrated. From there, we broke it down by quarterback and revealed the league’s best and worst when pressure comes from different places. Now it’s time to take the next step and look at “pressure profiles” for every quarterback in the league.


    As always, sample size caveats apply in some cases, but the numbers draw from our five years of data going back to 2008. There are certainly trends for some quarterbacks, while others are a bit more scattershot in their performance when pressure comes from different angles.


    When looking at the numbers, keep in mind that PFF Grade is the best indicator of a player’s performance as we isolate the quarterback’s impact on every single play. If he throws a wide receiver screen that goes for an 80-yard touchdown, the numbers will look pretty, but the QB is credited with the same grade he would earn if it was stopped for no gain. Similarly, a perfectly thrown pass that should be a first down but is dropped and intercepted will likely earn a positive grade despite the ugly INT in the stats. All of the stats are nice to get some perspective but PFF Grade always trumps as more reliable.


    With that said, let’s take a look at the quarterbacks from the AFC North and how they fare under pressure.





    Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
    Strength: Interior Pressure
    Weakness: Unblocked, Left Tackle


    Flacco has always looked uncomfortable against unblocked pressure and the numbers back up my inquisitive tweet from last December. As it turns out, he’s second-worst in the league against free rushers as his -15.6 grade ranks just ahead of Ryan Fitzpatrick. Perhaps it’s partially the offensive system focused on throwing the ball down the field or maybe it’s Flacco’s being handcuffed with regard to pre-snap audibles in his early years, but he’s certainly not at his best in the quick game throwing hot routes against unblocked blitzers.


    Flacco’s other weakness is pressure from left tackle, a position the Ravens shored up with the addition of Bryant McKinnie to the starting lineup during last year’s Super Bowl run. The only positives in the chart appear on the interior as Flacco grades at +1.9 when pressure comes from LG, C and RG.




    Pressure Drop-backs Comp% Yds Yds/Att TD INT Sack% Knock-down% PFF Grade QB Rating
    ALL 3130 59.87% 20391 7.1 122 64 6.5% 14.0% 41.6 86.5
    NP 2153 64.80% 16233 7.6 92 42 0.0% 0.0% 95.0 94.2
    P 977 45.75% 4158 5.6 30 22 20.7% 44.9% -53.5 64.7
    LT 146 49.11% 610 5.4 4 6 20.5% 45.2% -6.1 55.3
    LG 98 50.65% 505 6.6 3 1 18.4% 42.9% 1.0 79.2
    C 56 54.55% 335 7.6 2 2 14.3% 37.5% 0.0 75.5
    RG 80 53.23% 617 10.0 3 1 18.8% 37.5% 0.9 97.3
    RT 135 53.27% 668 6.2 7 2 15.6% 30.4% -0.1 86.5
    TE 31 44.00% 134 5.4 1 1 16.1% 25.8% -3.9 57.8
    RB 82 37.74% 295 5.6 2 0 32.9% 52.4% -4.7 69.3
    QB 40 20.00% 42 2.1 0 1 47.5% 75.0% -12.3 18.8
    MULT 120 34.29% 198 2.8 1 2 36.7% 66.7% -12.5 36.0
    UNB 189 42.11% 754 4.4 7 6 7.9% 41.3% -15.6 54.6



    Andy Dalton, Cincinnati Bengals
    Strength: RT
    Weakness: QB


    Dalton doesn’t have a glaring weakness as he struggles against all kinds of pressure, and he’s been responsible for nine sacks in a clean pocket in his two years in the league (including seven last season), leading to a -4.6 grade when pressure is brought upon himself. Though the raw numbers look ugly, Dalton has done his best work when pressure comes from right tackle at +1.3. For Dalton to take the next step in his third season he needs to show some improvement when under heat (-15. while taking better advantage of his opportunities when well-protected (+6.4).




    Pressure Drop-backs Comp% Yds Yds/Att TD INT Sack% Knock-down% PFF Grade QB Rating
    ALL 1239 60.04% 7451 6.7 47 33 6.1% 11.0% -9.4 81.6
    NP 925 64.79% 6263 6.9 40 26 0.0% 0.0% 6.4 87.6
    P 314 39.52% 1188 5.7 7 7 23.9% 43.3% -15.8 55.8
    LT 28 50.00% 75 4.2 0 0 28.6% 39.3% -1.3 61.1
    LG 35 32.00% 125 5.0 2 0 20.0% 45.7% -1.1 76.3
    C 29 50.00% 84 5.3 0 1 27.6% 44.8% 0.2 39.6
    RG 36 44.44% 217 8.0 1 1 13.9% 27.8% -1.1 69.5
    RT 48 34.38% 129 4.0 0 1 14.6% 35.4% 1.3 34.5
    TE 17 27.27% 63 5.7 0 0 29.4% 52.9% 1.7 50.9
    RB 21 35.71% 78 5.6 1 2 28.6% 66.7% -3.5 39.3
    QB 13 0.00% 0 0.0 0 0 69.2% 76.9% -4.6 39.6
    MUL 31 47.06% 106 6.2 1 1 41.9% 51.6% -1.4 62.4



    Brandon Weeden, Cleveland Browns
    Strength: C
    Weakness: Right side pressure


    It was a rough rookie season for Weeden who finished as our lowest-ranked quarterback at -30.0, and it really didn’t matter whether or opposing defenses got to him or not. He was actually slightly better when pressured at -13.6, but it’s only because he was so poor when given time (-14.3). Though he faced only eight pressures that came through the center, it was the one spot he handled well as he completed 5-of-6 for 56 yards and a +1.3 grade. Weeden will need to show improvement in all areas if he’s going to prove his worth as the Browns’ quarterback of the future.




    Pressure Drop-backs Comp% Yds Yds/Att TD INT Sack% Knock-down% PFF Grade QB Rating
    ALL 559 57.45% 3385 6.5 14 17 4.8% 14.7% -27.9 72.6
    NP 403 62.28% 2799 7.1 12 10 0.0% 0.0% -14.3 83.1
    P 156 41.80% 586 4.8 2 7 17.3% 52.6% -13.6 38.5
    LT 9 42.86% 17 2.4 0 0 11.1% 55.6% -2.4 50.3
    LG 15 33.33% 56 3.7 0 0 0.0% 53.3% 0.3 45.4
    C 8 83.33% 56 9.3 1 0 12.5% 37.5% 1.6 145.1
    RG 21 35.00% 100 5.0 1 3 4.8% 52.4% -3.0 29.2
    RT 23 47.06% 75 4.4 0 1 17.4% 43.5% -3.5 35.2
    TE 7 0.00% 0 0.0 0 0 28.6% 42.9% -0.8 39.6
    RB 15 36.36% 53 4.8 0 0 20.0% 53.3% 0.3 52.5
    QB 5 0.00% 0 0.0 0 0 60.0% 60.0% -1.2 39.6
    MUL 14 42.86% 33 4.7 0 1 42.9% 64.3% -2.6 17.9
    UNB 39 48.48% 196 5.9 0 2 15.4% 56.4% -2.3 42.0



    Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers
    Strength: Interior Pressure
    Weakness: RT


    While most quarterbacks are wilting when the pressure comes from the interior (LG-C-RG), Roethlisberger’s PFF Grade ranks second in the league since 2008 in such situations. Right tackle pressure is a different story as he grades at -6.7 though a return to health for starting RT Marcus Gilbert should help the cause. When Roethlisberger plays, you may hear announcers lauding his ability under pressure and possibly even state that he’s better while under heat, but don’t be fooled, Roethlisberger’s +107.0 grade without pressure is one of the best in the league since 2008. He’s near the top when pressured as well, but as is usually is the case, playing from a clean pocket is the preferred choice.




    Pressure Drop-backs Comp% Yds Yds/Att TD INT Sack% Knock-down% PFF Grade QB Rating
    ALL 2848 62.67% 19781 7.8 115 60 7.7% 14.5% 109.4 91.9
    NP 1913 66.26% 15091 8.0 85 39 0.0% 0.0% 107.0 97.3
    P 935 52.62% 4690 7.0 30 21 23.5% 44.1% 2.5 77.0
    LT 147 54.05% 805 7.3 7 8 20.4% 42.2% 2.8 68.3
    LG 104 50.62% 607 7.5 4 2 16.3% 36.5% 4.8 81.7
    C 72 60.78% 391 7.7 2 2 18.1% 44.4% 1.7 81.4
    RG 99 51.25% 588 7.4 3 2 15.2% 27.3% 7.0 77.5
    RT 93 52.46% 387 6.3 2 4 26.9% 45.2% -6.7 55.8
    TE 27 54.55% 266 12.1 3 0 11.1% 29.6% 2.8 137.5
    RB 41 45.45% 298 9.0 0 1 14.6% 39.0% 6.1 65.0
    QB 31 45.45% 73 6.6 1 0 61.3% 71.0% -9.4 97.9
    MUL 158 42.17% 431 5.2 0 1 43.0% 62.0% -7.2 53.8
    UNB 163 58.82% 844 6.2 8 1 14.7% 41.1% 0.6 93.5



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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    I have no problem with Ben using the God given abilities listed in the above article...

    I have a problem with Ben using ONLY the aforementioned abilities...

    They are tools to be used when needed....not used to the exclusion of a planned passing attack...
    Agreed. IMO, Ben is best when working within a system...and doing his thing when it breaks down...or when you need a special play. But Ben likes to always play like that...and that is what Haley is trying to reign in.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain QB View Post
    The dicking around approach led to an 8-8 season. I really doubt Ben cares about his stats. As for Ben getting hurt, it happened in the pocket, just where Haley and Art II wanted him to stay.

    Slap, you need to learn to watch the game beyond the stat sheet. The offense never passed the eye-test.
    Thanks, Crash, but I watched every Steelers game...if the offense didn't pass the eye test early in the season, it wasn't because of the passing game....

  7. #17
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    Steelers among most aggressive in red zone

    JUL 6
    By Jamison Hensley | ESPN.com

    Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger might not have been happy with the "dink and dunk" passing attack, but he couldn't complain about offensive coordinator Todd Haley's play-calling in the red zone.

    The Steelers were among the most aggressive teams in the league in throwing the ball into the end zone. According to ESPN Stats & Information, 59.3 percent of Pittsburgh's touchdown passes were caught in the end zone. That was tied for the ninth-highest in the league with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

    In total, the Steelers scored 16 times when throwing into the end zone. There were only five teams who had more, and none of them will surprise you considering their quarterbacks: the Denver Broncos (24), Green Bay Packers (22), Atlanta Falcons (20), New Orleans Saints (19) and San Diego Chargers (17).

    Unfortunately for the Steelers, being aggressive didn't translate into much success. Last season, in Haley's first season, Pittsburgh scored touchdowns on 27 of 49 trips in the red zone (55.1 percent), which ranked 14th in the NFL. In 2011, in Bruce Arians' last season as offensive coordinator, the Steelers reached the end zone on 27 of 53 possessions inside the 20-yard line (50.9 percent), which ranked 18th.

    The Baltimore Ravens ranked just behind the Steelers in catching 59.1 percent of their touchdown passes in the end zone. But the Cleveland Browns and Cincinnati Bengals are different stories.

    The Browns only scored seven touchdowns off passes thrown in the end zone, which highlights the conservative style of former coach Pat Shurmur. Only the Carolina Panthers (five), Kansas City Chiefs (three) and Arizona Cardinals (three) had fewer than Cleveland.

    Of the Bengals' 28 touchdown passes, which ranked seventh in the NFL, only 12 came on throws to the end zone. That's only 42.9 percent, which was the seventh-lowest in the NFL. It shows that a majority of the Bengals' touchdown passes came as a result of runs after catches.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/pos...ve-in-red-zone

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyhawk View Post
    And someone mentioned on this thread of finally let Ben win the game early on instead of late game heroics!! Abso-freaking-lutely!!
    That would be me.... hence why I said the Steelers needed to stop dicking around on offense for the first halves of games.

    Those worried about time of possession - most of last year's playoff teams were middle of the pack in regards to possession time. The Ravens were 30th. Not every drive has to be 10 minutes long. It's okay to trade in possession time for points. Then you can worry about possessing the ball late in the fourth quarter to milk the clock instead of hoping Ben bails the team out from its own stupidity in the last minute.

  9. #19
    Pro Bowler skyhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain QB View Post
    That would be me.... hence why I said the Steelers needed to stop dicking around on offense for the first halves of games.

    Those worried about time of possession - most of last year's playoff teams were middle of the pack in regards to possession time. The Ravens were 30th. Not every drive has to be 10 minutes long. It's okay to trade in possession time for points. Then you can worry about possessing the ball late in the fourth quarter to milk the clock instead of hoping Ben bails the team out from its own stupidity in the last minute.
    Bingo! Too much dickin around in the first half for the past 5 years or so..

    And another reason this team excels so well in the TOP category is because the D is so inept at generating turnovers and giving the O shorter fields. Ben has to usually start in their own territory. Usually inside the 20. TOP goes up but it's alot harder to score when you have to go 90 yards on the majority (so it seems) of your possessions.
    Last edited by skyhawk; 07-08-2013 at 08:45 PM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain QB View Post
    That would be me.... hence why I said the Steelers needed to stop dicking around on offense for the first halves of games.

    Those worried about time of possession - most of last year's playoff teams were middle of the pack in regards to possession time. The Ravens were 30th. Not every drive has to be 10 minutes long. It's okay to trade in possession time for points. Then you can worry about possessing the ball late in the fourth quarter to milk the clock instead of hoping Ben bails the team out from its own stupidity in the last minute.
    Maybe they should call Haley's offense the dick and dunk in your honor

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