What has Dwyer done that proves he is so much better than Redman? Career wise Dwyer has 774 rushing yds a 4.3 ave, 2 TDs. 112 receiving yards and 0 TDs. Redman has 1,136 career yard 4.2 ave. 5 TDs, 394 rec yards 2 TDS. Redman has made some big plays and had some big games. Dwyer is younger, you would think he is faster, possibly more talented, but Redman has uncanny leg strength and balance. If Redman can stay healthy, he has shown he can be productive.
Originally Posted by Captain Lemming
Let's hope the "trend" stops but I will have to witness it first. Bell being productive for the Steelers would be the only way he could be an exception.
I wouldn't say the Big 10 has outstanding NFL caliber OLs. There are a few good OL that come out over the years but the Big 10 isn't the warehouse of NFL OL. I would say it is even across the board. The Big 10 is just filled with "Big Boys" and that equates to grinding out in the run game through the Northern weather. That is just the staple of playing in the Big 10. You have to run the football to compete.
I think the only Big 10 team ranked in the Top 20 nationally in passing offense was Indiana...And I would say them being ranked 96th in rushing had something to do with that. The next closest was PSU at #35 and that is 110% because of Bill O'Brien because they ranked 96th in 2011. Big 10 is just "old school" football philosophy and that tends not to translate well to NFL speed and the growing trends. Not saying it can't change but I will have to see Bell succeed before I dismiss my feeling about Big 10. I hope he is the guy.
I looked predraft at Bell. He wasn't off the charts on his film but solid. I didn't have him as a 2nd rounder. I looked into his numbers too. Despite having Bell at the controls, MSU was ranked 77th Nationally in rushing last year. 81st Nationally at YPA. He didn't have much help with an 86th rank passing attack. Bell ranked 5th Nationally in total yards but he wasn't in the Top 100 in YPA. His average in any of his three years didn't crack the Top 100. He was 1st in attempts per game in 2012 so an argument can be made that his numbers are inflated because of "lack there of". On the other hand, you can say his numbers are more impressive given the fact he was the only MSU weapon.
The good news is he is a Steeler and I could pull for him. Becoming a productive RB could be HUGE for the Steelers with Haley at the controls for a very long time.
If the Steelers have another mediocre season that probably won't be the case.
Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
I doubt Haley is at risk. He had a successful start last year and the season was scuttled by injuries. That is obvious to everyone. It wasn't Haley's offense that faltered but they just ran out of players. I think we will see much better this season.
Originally Posted by Captain QB
Most of their wins last season (before Ben was hurt) came from crappy or mediocre teams. You guys are giving him praise for something he hasn't accomplished.
Originally Posted by Oviedo
My point is that most OVERRATED big 10 running back busts had great Olines. Certainly NONE of those busts had an oline as weak as Michigan States was.
Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
For example Ball had Guys like Zeitler and Konz on the interior of that line in his big season, 2011. HE fits the profile more than Bell.
Bell WAS the offense and had no oline. Look at the all conference teams two straight years, not one MSU blocker. Wisconson's had a bunch of guys.
Bell had to work for his with everyone and his uncle KNOWING he was the MSU offense with mediocre blockers. So yes his ypc aint impressive but really, how in the world can he do what he did?\
This we know, he had the most yards after contact. What do you think he does with real oline talent?
Hall of Famer
Word is that Bell is proficient at the other roles of back, pass blocking and receiving. If our OL has it together, avoids injuries better than last year, and plays well, Bell (and others) will have a very good year running the ball and our offense will be strong. IMO.
You can argue the point all you want Cap but someone has to disprove the Big 10 theory. Until it happens, it will exist. I hope BELL will be that guy since he is a Steeler.
MSU had "mediocre blockers" before Bell and guys like Edwin Baker put up 1,201-13 tds - 5.8 AVG and Javon Ringer 1,637 - 22 tds - 5.9 AVG their last years. They aren't exactly household names in the NFL. Illinois isn't an NFL OL factory and Leshoure 1,706 - 17 tds - 6.05 AVG and even the "great" Mendenhall 1,681 - 17 tds - 6.42 AVG didn't take the NFL by storm. Early on Leshoure so I will give him some time. To hit home, Evan Royster had three consecutive 1,000 yards seasons for PSU (3,419 - 24 tds - 5.6 AVG) with no OL & no passing offense...Where is he? Let's not discredit Bell's three years (3,346 - 33 tds - 5.1 AVG) or his one big year in 2012 1,793 - 12 tds - 4.69 AVG, but you can see his numbers against other Big 10 RBs for comparison. There isn't anything based on his numbers or film that screams sure thing & greatness before he proves himself on the field.
You mentioned Wisconsin and Ball. I agree, Wisconsin has NFL talent OL and you may want to group Iowa in there too with Michigan & OSU. Before Ball, Wisconsin had John Clay who we all know who put up two consecutive 1,000 yards seasons behind those OLs and had pretty darn good numbers for 3 years (3,413 - 41 tds - 5.5 AVG). Shon Greene had a monstrous year before he came out 1,850 - 20 tds - 6.03 AVG and I would label him as a disappointment thus far. So that argument is sound and actually part of my prejudice. But there has been many on the other side of that argument who didn't play behind good OL that put up good numbers in the Big 10 and still failed.
Most yards after contact could go hand in hand with a bad OL. You would also hope the biggest back at 6'2 245 would lead that stat. I watched enough of him to know he doesn't go down easy after contact and would be really excited about that stat if the NFL was filled with "Big 10 defenders" but he will see a whole different herd of animals lined up on the other side of the LOS come Sundays. I'll wait & see how he does against them before I get excited...I'm not crowning him a success based on what he did in college. Do I think his numbers would have been better with a better OL? I think that would be an easy bet to win. A better OL in college wouldn't have made him more prepared for the NFL just because his stats were better or more impressive to me. To me, His running style and his transition to the NFL will only be gauged when he sees snaps in the regular season.
People want to distinguish good RB from good OL but you can see clearly the marriage of the two give mixed results. A good RB will find a way to be productive and make his mark. A good OL will help a RB be more productive. A marriage of the two can give you greatness. One thing that always rise to the top is a RB simply playing within his strengths and use his instincts & uncoachable traits. That is where the "Be the RB he is and not the RB he thinks he is" comes from. Mendy's failures came from his thought he could bounce and make a play because he thought he was an elite athlete. In Big 10 play, that thought process produced some incredible numbers for him. In the NFL, He was an athlete among athletes. Bell's success at this level will hinge on that. IMO, Bell's level of production will be based on his realization that he is a one cut "chunk" runner. His skills and stature will take that chunk from a 4 yards per play to a 5-6 yards per play. He should excel using his vision and cut back ability in the zone scheme. His ability to break arm tackles and always falling forward will wear down defenses and make him a late game bloomer. I also believe he possesses the abilities to be a complete back receiving and blocking. That is WHO Bell is and needs to be. If he looks to stretch the zone always to the outside or gets caught flat footed in the hole & looks to bounce because he "thinks" he sees something outside....He will struggle.
Just to look at an ugly list of 1st & 2nd round RBs from the Big 10:
LeShoure, Wells, Mendenhall, Maroney, Perry, L Johnson, Duckett, Betts, Bennett, Thomas, Dayne, Motgomery, Enis, Holcombe, Biakabutuka, George, Alstott, K. Carter, Wheatley, Fletcher
I would say that list is filled with more disappointment than anything.
Last edited by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY; 07-05-2013 at 01:39 PM.
Great points all around. It is a bit sobering to see the stats of guys like Ringer and Baker before him. And one can't really argue with the list of Big-10 RBs who've flamed out to degrees (I was trying to think of "successful" guys, for balance sakes... only one who came to mind was LJ from Penn State).
Inside the Ropes: Bell shines in passing game
By Mark Kaboly
Published: Sunday, July 28, 2013
• The Steelers need a way, at least initially, to find a replacement for injured tight end Heath Miller's 71 catches. A good portion of those may be absorbed by rookie running back Le'Veon Bell, who turned three short passes into long runs during team drills Sunday. Bell is fourth on the depth chart behind Isaac Redman, Jonathan Dwyer and Baron Batch.
• Redman continues to take first reps at running back with the first team and showed why he might not relinquish the spot. Redman, noticeably slimmer and quicker, burst to the outside on an outside zone play and hit the corner for a long gain. Redman showed he is picking up the new blocking scheme when he took a handoff, made one cut and hit the hole quickly for another substantial gain.
• Markus Wheaton, who missed spring workouts because of school, took part in only his second team practice since being drafted. Wheaton came across the middle on a shallow cross and made a diving catch on a ball thrown by John Parker Wilson.
• Curtis Brown made one of finest plays of the day when he recovered from getting beaten deep by Emmanuel Sa nde rs to leap in front of him and intercept a pass thrown by Ben Roethlisberger.
• One battle that will be waged in camp is between second-year incumbent punter Drew Butler and veteran newcomer Brian Moorman. Both were inconsistent Sunday. Butler got off some deep punts; Moorman had nice hang time.
• The Steelers used Ross Ventrone, DeMarcus Van Dyke, Terry Hawthorne and Josh Victorian as gunners on their punt team.
• If practice was any indication, Antonio Brown will be returning punts. Brown took all the first-team reps, followed by David Gilreath, Wheaton, Emmanuel Sanders and Reggie Dunn.
• First-round pick Jarvis Jones took third-team snaps at right outside linebacker, with Jason Worilds on the left at times. Worilds is taking first-team snaps on the right side as well.