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Thread: Why Was Ben Having a Pro Bowl Caliber Season Last Year?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    You forgot to all that since LeBeau is the current DC he is automatically wrong and all future DCs will be better to some degree.

    hopefully the next DC won't be senile and the game won't have passed him by...

  2. #12
    Compare Ben's TD, INTs and sack numbers to previous years.

    Now, factor in the lack of a running game...

    Haley's O put Ben in a position to get those numbers prior to his injury....But, Ben had to execute...

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    Could it be that Ben was having a great year because of his performance on 3rd downs when he was going off script and playing his backyard style of football? Our overall offensive production went down. .........I'm just trying to find some real evidence that Haley helped make him better.
    You fail to see that Ben's 3rd down efficiency WAS A RESULT of Haley's offense, not in spite of it
    I ask you this Flippy, why was Ben BETTER in third down than in recent years?
    He was far LESS schoolyard than in recent years.

    Ben's 3rd down efficiency WENT UP because he made quicker reads and threw shorter high percentage pases that moved the chains.

    That is why Millers catches were WAY UP. Rather than waiting for deeper lower percentage routes all the time, Ben settled for quicker easy completions.

    Hence the great 3rd down efficiency

  4. #14
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    It also seemed that we were in third and short much more often than third and long. Dink or dunk it on 1st and 2nd down and get a manageable 3rd down and all of a sudden you're punting much less frequently.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Why Was Ben Having a Pro Bowl Caliber Season Last Year?

    I'd say it's because Ben has been a Pro Bowl Caliber QB for years.

    He was a Pro Bowl Caliber QB with Whisenhunt, a Pro Bowl Caliber QB with Arians, and a Pro Bowl Caliber QB with Haley.
    This.... and the fact that we had NO running game.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    You fail to see that Ben's 3rd down efficiency WAS A RESULT of Haley's offense, not in spite of it
    I ask you this Flippy, why was Ben BETTER in third down than in recent years?
    He was far LESS schoolyard than in recent years.

    Ben's 3rd down efficiency WENT UP because he made quicker reads and threw shorter high percentage pases that moved the chains.

    That is why Millers catches were WAY UP. Rather than waiting for deeper lower percentage routes all the time, Ben settled for quicker easy completions.

    Hence the great 3rd down efficiency
    Maybe we got into more 3rd and manageable yardage than before, but I still seem to remember more heroics than usual on this year's 3rd down conversions. I don't know how often we were in 3rd and long vs 3rd and short or how many times Ben converted making a quick throw vs holding the ball and being Ben. I'm just going off the overall trend I think I remembered which can always be off because the exciting plays are always the most memorable.

    Re: Heath - I think he just got the majority of the targets Hines would have gotten if he were here. I always thought of Hines as a WR that played the game more like a TE. I've always thought Heath Miller was the best overall TE in the game and wondered if he weren't on the same field as Hines if he could have had a chance at a HOF career.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis View Post
    It also seemed that we were in third and short much more often than third and long. Dink or dunk it on 1st and 2nd down and get a manageable 3rd down and all of a sudden you're punting much less frequently.
    I was thinking 3rd and short might be the answer. But I have no ideas how to quantify often we really did get in 3rd and manageable situations? I was kinda hoping someone had all the stats up their sleeve and could further explain the shift in Roethlisberger's game. Everyone talks about it, but I just haven't really seen anyone lay out the stats on what worked and why.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    I was thinking 3rd and short might be the answer. But I have no ideas how to quantify often we really did get in 3rd and manageable situations? I was kinda hoping someone had all the stats up their sleeve and could further explain the shift in Roethlisberger's game. Everyone talks about it, but I just haven't really seen anyone lay out the stats on what worked and why.
    I have my doubt that Steelers were in 3rd and short more often than not.

    Steelers running game was horrible apart from those 3-4 games period. I have my doubts if Haley threw more on 1st down. If that was the case how were Steelers in 3rd and short??

    I maybe wrong since i don't have the stats but i don't believe 3rd and short was the reason for Ben's success on 3rd down.

    This was in a Philly paper before Steelers vs Eagles game:

    The Money Down: That’s what they call third down. Despite playing behind shaky protection, Ben Roethlisberger has been money on third down in the Steelers’ first three games. He’s first in the league in third-down passing with a 145.1 rating. He’s completed 75 percent of his passes and has averaged 9.83 yards per attempt on third down

    Now 9.83 YPA can't be 3rd and short situation. It holds true for first 3 games.


    P.s: Font turned black.
    Last edited by grotonsteel; 06-07-2013 at 06:42 AM.
    Steelers Draft
    Rd 1: Mike Evans - WR
    Rd 2: Kyle Van Noy - ILB/OLB
    Rd 3c: Philip Gaines - CB
    Rd 4: Taylor Hart - DE
    Rd 5: Justin Ellis - DT
    Rd 5c:Xavier Grimble -TE

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by grotonsteel View Post
    I have my doubt that Steelers were in 3rd and short more often than not.

    Steelers running game was horrible apart from those 3-4 games period. I have my doubts if Haley threw more on 1st down. If that was the case how were Steelers in 3rd and short??

    I maybe wrong since i don't have the stats but i don't believe 3rd and short was the reason for Ben's success on 3rd down.

    This was in a Philly paper before Steelers vs Eagles game:

    The Money Down: That’s what they call third down. Despite playing behind shaky protection, Ben Roethlisberger has been money on third down in the Steelers’ first three games. He’s first in the league in third-down passing with a 145.1 rating. He’s completed 75 percent of his passes and has averaged 9.83 yards per attempt on third down

    Now 9.83 YPA can't be 3rd and short situation. It holds true for first 3 games.


    P.s: Font turned black.
    YpA has nothing to do with what down it is...

    But, the stats break down like this:

    449 pass attempts in 2012

    162 of those were on 1st down

    124 of those were on 3rd down...50 on 3rd and <6, 74 on 3rd and 6+...

    2011: 140 attempts on 3rd down...55 on 3rd and <6, 85 on 3rd and 6+...

    2010: 107 attempts on 3rd down...36 on 3rd and <6, 71 on 3rd and 6+...

    2009: 132 attempts on 3rd down...52 on 3rd and <6, 80 on 3rd and 6+...

    I can't tell anything significant...but, as for his other numbers on 3rd down, he was especially good in 2012 and 2010, not so good in 2009 comparatively...

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    Maybe we got into more 3rd and manageable yardage than before, but I still seem to remember more heroics than usual on this year's 3rd down conversions. I don't know how often we were in 3rd and long vs 3rd and short or how many times Ben converted making a quick throw vs holding the ball and being Ben. I'm just going off the overall trend I think I remembered which can always be off because the exciting plays are always the most memorable.

    Re: Heath - I think he just got the majority of the targets Hines would have gotten if he were here. I always thought of Hines as a WR that played the game more like a TE. I've always thought Heath Miller was the best overall TE in the game and wondered if he weren't on the same field as Hines if he could have had a chance at a HOF career.
    Heaths career year was WITH Hines.
    The playcalling THAT year (1st year of Arians) I REALLY liked. Frankly the best playcalling of Ben's career in my opinion.
    Ben was a 3rd down beast that year too.
    Arains and Ben went away from Heath one we got more speed at receiver.

    Let me give you an example of an early season game by Ben. Our highest scoring game only game above 30.
    Here is every third down pass versus the Raiders:

    Ben Roethlisberger pass complete short middle to Jerricho Cotchery for 9 yards (tackle by Joselio Hanson and Patrick Lee)
    Ben Roethlisberger pass complete short right to Heath Miller for 4 yards, touchdown


    Ben Roethlisberger pass complete short middle to Mike Wallace for 16 yards (tackle by Matt Giordano)
    Ben Roethlisberger pass complete short right to Emmanuel Sanders for 7 yards (tackle by Tyvon Branch)


    Ben Roethlisberger pass complete short left to Chris Rainey for 14 yards (tackle by Lamarr Houston)
    Penalty on Ben Roethlisberger: Delay of Game, 5 yards (no play)
    Ben Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep middle intended for Heath Miller (defended by Philip Wheeler)


    Ben Roethlisberger spiked the ball (Halftime)


    Ben Roethlisberger pass complete middle to Mike Wallace for 22 yards (tackle by Tyvon Branch)
    Ben Roethlisberger pass complete middle to Mike Wallace for 22 yards, touchdown


    Ben Roethlisberger pass complete short right to Heath Miller for 9 yards (tackle by Michael Mitchell)


    Ben Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep middle intended for Mike Wallace


    In summery- Ben completed his first 5 3rd down passes all under short passes.
    All of these converted to 1st downs except for one that was a third and 25 due to penalties on the drive.
    Bens 1st 3rd down incompletion was pass number 6 his first deep pass.
    THAT WAS HIS ONLY THIRD DOWN INCOMPLETION IN THE ENTIRE 1st half.


    Ben's longest third down completion was 22 yards for the game.


    Bens second 3rd down incompletion of the game was a deep pass to Wallace.
    It was his last pass of the day. Consider Ben hit 100 percent of his short and medium 3rd down passes (he was FLAWLESS), but went deep with his last pass, incomplete, Raiders get the ball back and win the game on a late field goal.


    Ben was 100 percent on short and medium 3rd down passes. His ONLY 3rd down incompletions IN THE ENTIRE GAME were 2 deep balls. Not a single sack.

    Bens 3rd down efficiency was without question due to the emphasis on shorter passes.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 06-07-2013 at 12:30 PM.

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