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Thread: Steelers select Markus Wheaton in the third

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    And what I believe Shawn is saying is that Ben's chances of playing 16 HEALTHY games increases dramatically if he plays within Haley's system as opposed to playing within Arians' system...if he simply decides to go rogue, it doesn't matter who the coordinator is...
    I don't want 16 healthy with an average (to below average) offense. They started 5-3 in the easier half of the schedule, including losses to the Raiders and Titans... Gimme 14 healthy when the team is 12-4.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    I don't want 16 healthy with an average (to below average) offense. They started 5-3 in the easier half of the schedule, including losses to the Raiders and Titans... Gimme 14 healthy when the team is 12-4.
    Huh??????????????????????????????????????

    You totally lost me
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    I don't want 16 healthy with an average (to below average) offense. They started 5-3 in the easier half of the schedule, including losses to the Raiders and Titans... Gimme 14 healthy when the team is 12-4.
    I get what you are saying but most won't understand it...

    Ben's style under Arians led to some big hits and a banged up Ben but we were usually in contention even though the offense was a roller coaster all year and had stretches of ugliness. Ben would miss a few games but we would be in Super Bowl run mode come playoffs.

    With Haley we had a healthy Ben and struggled vs some bad teams. Ben had good numbers but the O was pathetic and had long drives that yielded 3 or nothing at all. We were efficient but it was still 3rd and hope Ben converts instead of killing teams with our awesome dink and dunk.

    IMO Haley's O had potential but we capped our big plays due to the dinks.. and the only reason we went deep so much was due to Ben being Ben...

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille View Post
    I don't want 16 healthy with an average (to below average) offense. They started 5-3 in the easier half of the schedule, including losses to the Raiders and Titans... Gimme 14 healthy when the team is 12-4.
    I get what you are saying Deville, but I would not put the poor start at the feet of Ben. This was the one time in the last 10 or so years when you could say that the D failed the O. Ben had 16 TDs and 4 ints in the first 8 games. He managed this with a poor O line and the most receiver drops that he had ever had to endure as a Steeler QB.

    If you want to see the player who lost out the most in this offense it was Wallace, but without him around when he was evaluating personnel, how can you expect otherwise? Even if Haley was another Arians, how could he have made Wallace a centerpiece if he missed the entire pre-season with no indication if he would show up in time to start?

  5. #55
    Benchwarmer raycafan's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=feltdizz;563434]I get what you are saying but most won't understand it...
    "With Haley we had a healthy Ben and struggled vs some bad teams. Ben had good numbers but the O was pathetic and had long drives that yielded 3 or nothing at all. We were efficient but it was still 3rd and hope Ben converts instead of killing teams with our awesome dink and dunk. "




    It seems to me that for years people were bitching about Arians offense not finding the end zone too. So maybe it is not the coordinators as much as the personal that performing the plays.
    Last edited by raycafan; 05-16-2013 at 06:03 PM.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    I get what you are saying Deville, but I would not put the poor start at the feet of Ben. This was the one time in the last 10 or so years when you could say that the D failed the O. Ben had 16 TDs and 4 ints in the first 8 games.
    This is exactly right...

    As much as I complaing about the lack of offensive scoring, the offense was not why we lost the Raiders game...

    Nor was the offense why we lost the Titans game...

    In the second half of the season, when the defense played better, the offense failed...

    The Browns loss, for example, was totally the offense's fault...

  7. #57
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    During BA's career, we averaged 22.6 pts per game. Haley's offense which was intended to fix BA's short comings put up 21 pts per game.

    Ben averaged 14.6 games during BA's tenure vs 13 for Haley's one season. And BA's tenure included his suspension. Take out the suspension and Ben missed 3 games over BA's 5 year tenure. That's how many games he missed last year and Haley was brought in to protect him.

    Haley's here, so I support him. But he has yet to do what he's promised to do. We didn't like BA cause he could run. The OLine couldn't block. The RedZone efficiency sucked. And yet, under Haley, the running game got worse. The scoring got worse. Ben's health was worse. Ben was statistically having a better year, but the team didn't improve offensively like the Steelers wanted.

    And avoiding the deep ball didn't protect Ben in the end. It just took away chances to score more. To open up things underneath. To help take a DB out of the box and help the running game.

    I think you can make a pretty good case that BA got the most out of the players he had. Haley still has yet to do this. Hopefully he does. But we just haven't seen it yet.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Arians, Ben and the OL can take the blame. If you are a bright OC, and you have a poor OL, and a stud QB...you don't develop your O around plays that take 5-7 seconds to develop. You shorten the drop back, shorten the routes, and compact the O until you get enough talent on the OL to keep your franchise QB healthy. You ignore your cowboy QB and his desire to extend plays, and you help him focus on quicker reads and getting the ball out. You play to the strengths and around the weaknesses of your O. That isn't what Arians did, therefore the criticism is warranted. I believe he is a good coach, but not a great coach because he has a hard time developing an O based upon the talent he has.

    Haley on the other hand recognized all of that and developed an O the franchise QB hated. It took some balls to stand up to Ben and force him to play within the OL skill set. And at the end of the day Ben was having a record year until he got hurt. If this team stays healthy, I suspect many here will be singing Haley's praises, and when he is gone for a HC job many will lament his loss.

    And Arians only repeated his modus operandi when he left for Indy who had an arguably worse OL than the Steelers and yet he had a rookie QB hold the ball for 20+yd routes. Luck was hit a lot more than he needed to be for a first year QB.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    I get what you are saying Deville, but I would not put the poor start at the feet of Ben. This was the one time in the last 10 or so years when you could say that the D failed the O. Ben had 16 TDs and 4 ints in the first 8 games. He managed this with a poor O line and the most receiver drops that he had ever had to endure as a Steeler QB.

    If you want to see the player who lost out the most in this offense it was Wallace, but without him around when he was evaluating personnel, how can you expect otherwise? Even if Haley was another Arians, how could he have made Wallace a centerpiece if he missed the entire pre-season with no indication if he would show up in time to start?
    p

    And you just nailed it. Sorry, I can't place Bens success in a very new O on some rule changes. That's a tremendous stretch. Ben was freakish for 8 games before the injury. If Ben stays healthy you will see even more.

  10. #60
    Pro Bowler thor75's Avatar
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    I just don't think you can compare BA's 5 years vs Haleys one. Plus the biggest effect of Big Ben being BA's best bud. If there was a fractured locker room last year, I'm sure BB's displeasure with the OC change had something to do with it. Wallace's situation may have exasperated it. All of a sudden a new OC is supposed to come in and change the offense with drastic effects. I don't think so. These things take time, bringing in coaches with the same mindset, philosophy, and players with that desired skill set. It's really no surprise the offense did not improve drastically last year, the franchise QB with his "rosetta stone" comments and whatever self imposed prejudicies he harbored. I was really impressed with his new founded leadership he has shown this off season. Big Ben for all his physical prowess, needs to step it up in the mental game this year to become one of the all time greats
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