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Thread: Correct Smythe If He's Wrong About Jarvis Jones........

  1. #11
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    I'm a little hesitant to give Jones elite props for any of his stats the last two years. He did it as a 22 & 23 year old in college. There are Pros doing it as 20-23 and making ProBowls. A guy like Aldon Smith tallied 14 & 19.5 sacks as a 22 & 23 year old in the NFL. I'm more impressed with a kid that comes in as an 18 year old true freshman or a 19 year old redshirt freshman and gives you three years of production. Add in the injury concern...I'm not crowning him a can't miss.

    As a 20 year old true freshman (Which also draws concerns) he couldn't crack the starting line-up at USC. In '09 he went 13 tackles & 1.5 TFL with no sacks in 8 games before his injury. He couldn't beat on 19 year old freshman Nick Perry or Junior Eversen Griffin. Sits out '10 on transfer. Jones has two monsterous seasons at Georgia..There is no doubting that stats wise.

    There are concerns for me beyond that as a 3-4 OLB at the next level. There are alot of Jones lovers in here & I will get grief for it. A healthy scratch at the combine wouldn't have bothered me.... But then you see why at his proday. Reports of poor work ethic. Some of the same people that soured on Moore because of his 40 are the same who look past Jones's 40, cone, and position workouts. I understand people have their favorites but you have to do your due diligence and go back now becasue you know what to look for. He isn't strong at the point of attack and isn't explosive in a short area changing direction. Doesn't show me long speed and isn't a sideline to sideline player from weak side. He has the size of a weak side but speed of strong side with lack of strength at point of attack. When he gets tied up with blockers he doesn't have the speed to recover. Because of his weaknesses shown and his limited growth potential...There is cause for concern.

    Mike Mayock is one of the highly regarded draft guys. I will be fair to show I'm not bashing on Jones. Mayock has Patterson rated @ #30 now. He was high on Patterson and had him rated as the #1 WR & a top 15 prospect. He dropped him some because of the reports about Patterson's concerns of picking up an offense. I would tell you to bet on Mayock but I am my own person and do my own homework. I have been high on Patterson since Feb. and I won't change. I have seen enough on him on option routes & reading coverage to not worry about his football IQ. There have been elite talent coming out as of late that had the same concerns & low wonderlics and excelled in the NFL. I can't do my own interview and won't sway my judgement by reports that may be smoke. If I am wrong, it will be because of this. I said the only question was his football IQ from the beginning.

    To tie Mayock in to Jones. Mayock has Jones rated as his 19th prospect. But he also has Jones as a 4-3 OLB because of the concerns listed above. May be too small and weak at the point of attack to be a 4-3 DE with limited growth potential. May be to heavy footed to place in space and set the edge against the run as a 3-4 OLB. Jones DOES show some great instincts to be around the ball and diagnose plays. If you cover him up, he could really excel. Again, his heavy feet may limit him from being inside in a 3-4 so hence the projection as a 4-3 OLB. May be a great SAM if covered up but may not have the foot speed to be a WIL. I'm still not sure he can't be a WIL because his instincts and recognition could compensate.


    That all being said....If Jones is selected by the Steelers...I will pull for him like everyone else. As long as there is a Steeler helmet on a guy...He is OK by me. I would welcome him to prove me wrong.



  2. #12
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    Everyone says Jones is the guy but like JPN said.. he looks undersized.

  3. #13
    Hall of Famer SidSmythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    I'm a little hesitant to give Jones elite props for any of his stats the last two years. He did it as a 22 & 23 year old in college. There are Pros doing it as 20-23 and making ProBowls. A guy like Aldon Smith tallied 14 & 19.5 sacks as a 22 & 23 year old in the NFL. I'm more impressed with a kid that comes in as an 18 year old true freshman or a 19 year old redshirt freshman and gives you three years of production. Add in the injury concern...I'm not crowning him a can't miss.

    As a 20 year old true freshman (Which also draws concerns) he couldn't crack the starting line-up at USC. In '09 he went 13 tackles & 1.5 TFL with no sacks in 8 games before his injury. He couldn't beat on 19 year old freshman Nick Perry or Junior Eversen Griffin. Sits out '10 on transfer. Jones has two monsterous seasons at Georgia..There is no doubting that stats wise.

    There are concerns for me beyond that as a 3-4 OLB at the next level. There are alot of Jones lovers in here & I will get grief for it. A healthy scratch at the combine wouldn't have bothered me.... But then you see why at his proday. Reports of poor work ethic. Some of the same people that soured on Moore because of his 40 are the same who look past Jones's 40, cone, and position workouts. I understand people have their favorites but you have to do your due diligence and go back now becasue you know what to look for. He isn't strong at the point of attack and isn't explosive in a short area changing direction. Doesn't show me long speed and isn't a sideline to sideline player from weak side. He has the size of a weak side but speed of strong side with lack of strength at point of attack. When he gets tied up with blockers he doesn't have the speed to recover. Because of his weaknesses shown and his limited growth potential...There is cause for concern.

    Mike Mayock is one of the highly regarded draft guys. I will be fair to show I'm not bashing on Jones. Mayock has Patterson rated @ #30 now. He was high on Patterson and had him rated as the #1 WR & a top 15 prospect. He dropped him some because of the reports about Patterson's concerns of picking up an offense. I would tell you to bet on Mayock but I am my own person and do my own homework. I have been high on Patterson since Feb. and I won't change. I have seen enough on him on option routes & reading coverage to not worry about his football IQ. There have been elite talent coming out as of late that had the same concerns & low wonderlics and excelled in the NFL. I can't do my own interview and won't sway my judgement by reports that may be smoke. If I am wrong, it will be because of this. I said the only question was his football IQ from the beginning.

    To tie Mayock in to Jones. Mayock has Jones rated as his 19th prospect. But he also has Jones as a 4-3 OLB because of the concerns listed above. May be too small and weak at the point of attack to be a 4-3 DE with limited growth potential. May be to heavy footed to place in space and set the edge against the run as a 3-4 OLB. Jones DOES show some great instincts to be around the ball and diagnose plays. If you cover him up, he could really excel. Again, his heavy feet may limit him from being inside in a 3-4 so hence the projection as a 4-3 OLB. May be a great SAM if covered up but may not have the foot speed to be a WIL. I'm still not sure he can't be a WIL because his instincts and recognition could compensate.


    That all being said....If Jones is selected by the Steelers...I will pull for him like everyone else. As long as there is a Steeler helmet on a guy...He is OK by me. I would welcome him to prove me wrong.
    Bravo!! Thank you for the insight. I've watched his highlights and can't say I've been into the draft this year b/c I haven't. I see a 4-3 OLB here, not a dominant LOLB.
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    Here We Go Steelers, Here We Go...!!!

  4. #14
    Pro Bowler BigRob's Avatar
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    My two cents, and worth about that much, is that Damontre Moore is getting killed for being slow, weak, etc... But Jones has the same issues and is 3 years older.

    I'm not saying we should draft either one at 17, but why is Moore getting crucified for the same issues as Jones? Moore played in the SEC this year and dominated.

    Both seem to have poor work ethics.
    Here comes the BOOM!

  5. #15
    Based on Jarvis Jones' game tape against Alabama and scouting video of Moore;

    Jones has the burst that an NFL pass rusher needs while Demontre Moore gets to QBs with good angles and hand placement. Some scouts don't see Moore as being able to beat NFL caliber linemen.

    The knock I have on Jones is his trouble stacking and shedding. After coming out early and beating a tackle for a strip-sack, he was targeted against Alabama as they ran successfully his direction repeatedly. I think he needs to get stronger.

    I do think that the Steelers like him and if he's there, he's likely the pick.
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    1. Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan State
    2. Allen Robinson, WR, Penn State
    3. Dominique Easley, DT, Florida
    4. Phillip Gaines, CB, Rice
    5. Jordan Zumwalt, ILB, UCLA
    5. Jerick McKinnon, RB, Georgia Southern
    6. Prince Shembo, OLB, Notre Dame
    6. Beau Allen, NT, Wisconsin
    7. Shaquille Richardson, CB, Arizona (went to BnB's Los Alamitos High School)


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  6. #16
    Pro Bowler BigRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacknblue80s View Post
    Based on Jarvis Jones' game tape against Alabama and scouting video of Moore;

    Jones has the burst that an NFL pass rusher needs while Demontre Moore gets to QBs with good angles and hand placement. Some scouts don't see Moore as being able to beat NFL caliber linemen.

    The knock I have on Jones is his trouble stacking and shedding. After coming out early and beating a tackle for a strip-sack, he was targeted against Alabama as they ran successfully his direction repeatedly. I think he needs to get stronger.

    I do think that the Steelers like him and if he's there, he's likely the pick.
    Interesting analysis. That is one of the only times I've heard someone really differentiate them. I think Jones is going to have trouble turning the edge against NFL tackles. Moore may have the same issue as well.
    Here comes the BOOM!

  7. #17
    Hall of Famer SidSmythe's Avatar
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    If you watch a lot of his sacks, they're in pursuit b/c of coverage. I saw 1 sack where he was manned up against a LT, he basically slows down, gets the LT to stop his feet and then bursts around him for a sack. Very clever. but I still haven't seen him just flat out beat anyone with strength, just speed. Maybe I'm missing something
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  8. #18
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    I liked him at first, then I didn't, and then I did, and now meh?

    I do like his hustle and the way he goes after the ball. Seems like a smart player. But using Ovi-logic, at his age he'll be on the verge of retirement before he learns DL's system.

  9. #19
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    Timmons WOWED scouts with his timed and field speed. Jones ran a 4.92 40 at his Pro Day. Though he does seem to have field speed.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoe View Post
    Timmons WOWED scouts with his timed and field speed. Jones ran a 4.92 40 at his Pro Day. Though he does seem to have field speed.
    One of my favorite memories was watching Timmons run past Troy (who had the angle) to make a tackle on a WR. I don't see Jarvis having that much field speed. Not even close.

    What's interesting is Smythe is making the case, Jones has speed but no power. But I'm not sure he even has the speed.

    I do think he's got passion for the game and a strong desire to take away the football which reminds me a little of Harrison. But that's about it. I'm back on the Jones seems risky train. He'll either be great or horrible. But nowhere in the middle.

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