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Thread: Do not be fooled! Jarvis Jones is elite.

  1. #11
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    I wouldn't have a problem with Jones.. but please, please, please pick up Ertz in the second. We need playmakers on O.

  2. #12
    I think that you can disregard the "Lebeau doesn't let them play for two years" argument here. There are usually two overriding factors behind why our D players can't get on the field right away:

    1) They have to learn a new position and scheme
    2) There are already superior vets in front of them

    Hood and Heyward had Smith and Keisel in place ahead of them. Hood was new to the 3-4. Timmons was moving inside in a 3-4 to from outside in a 4-3. etc...

    In this case, you would have a player coming in who was a 3-4 OLB in college. He is not coming in behind 5 time pro-bowler, two time all pro, former DPOY James Harrison. He would come in and compete with a group that includes Worilds, Robinson, and Carter. A group with 13 combined career starts.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    I think that you can disregard the "Lebeau doesn't let them play for two years" argument here. There are usually two overriding factors behind why our D players can't get on the field right away:

    1) They have to learn a new position and scheme
    2) There are already superior vets in front of them

    Hood and Heyward had Smith and Keisel in place ahead of them. Hood was new to the 3-4. Timmons was moving inside in a 3-4 to from outside in a 4-3. etc...

    In this case, you would have a player coming in who was a 3-4 OLB in college. He is not coming in behind 5 time pro-bowler, two time all pro, former DPOY James Harrison. He would come in and compete with a group that includes Worilds, Robinson, and Carter. A group with 13 combined career starts.
    good point...with 13 combined starts between them I think Jones could pull a Woodley... ehh, first year Woodley, not last year.

  4. #14
    Legend RuthlessBurgher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    I wouldn't have a problem with Jones.. but please, please, please pick up Ertz in the second. We need playmakers on O.
    Sign me up for both Jarvis Jones and Zach Ertz with our first two picks!

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    Sign me up for both Jarvis Jones and Zach Ertz with our first two picks!
    ditto... i'd take that.
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  6. #16
    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Has anyone mentioned that Tyler Eiffert is available in the draft this year? I hear he's a pretty good tight end.

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    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    The bigger problem is we don't let defensive players play until near the end of their first contract. That is a major problem in a cap driven league.
    You repeat this as though it is a given fact, but it's simply not true. Guys who have proven ready to play early have played early. Those that have not been ready have not played.

    Woodley contributed in his first year and started in his second. Cortez Allen has contributed in his first two years. Many players throughout the league do not make major impacts until their second year, regardless of defensive system.

    And many offensive players (outside of RBs) contribute nothing as rookies.

  8. #18
    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    I think that you can disregard the "Lebeau doesn't let them play for two years" argument here. There are usually two overriding factors behind why our D players can't get on the field right away:

    1) They have to learn a new position and scheme
    2) There are already superior vets in front of them

    Hood and Heyward had Smith and Keisel in place ahead of them. Hood was new to the 3-4. Timmons was moving inside in a 3-4 to from outside in a 4-3. etc...

    In this case, you would have a player coming in who was a 3-4 OLB in college. He is not coming in behind 5 time pro-bowler, two time all pro, former DPOY James Harrison. He would come in and compete with a group that includes Worilds, Robinson, and Carter. A group with 13 combined career starts.
    Stop introducing logic into the discussion a rookie should never have to wait a couple of years to play and, particularly, a 1st round rookie. He should be inserted into the lineup immediately, many teams do this every year and are successful from what I hear.

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  9. #19
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    I think that you can disregard the "Lebeau doesn't let them play for two years" argument here. There are usually two overriding factors behind why our D players can't get on the field right away:

    1) They have to learn a new position and scheme
    2) There are already superior vets in front of them

    Hood and Heyward had Smith and Keisel in place ahead of them. Hood was new to the 3-4. Timmons was moving inside in a 3-4 to from outside in a 4-3. etc...

    In this case, you would have a player coming in who was a 3-4 OLB in college. He is not coming in behind 5 time pro-bowler, two time all pro, former DPOY James Harrison. He would come in and compete with a group that includes Worilds, Robinson, and Carter. A group with 13 combined career starts.
    Exactly! If Jones is drafted by the Steelers at 17, he comes in and starts from day one regardless of what this organization has done in the past. In this case, the history of what this origination has done draft-wise does not come into play because of the factors you point too.
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  10. #20
    Pro Bowler BigRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    AND if trend continues he will be 25-26 before he starts. A 1st rounder for a kid who will play ST unless there is an injury...I'm not taking him at 17.

    I know you are high on him Dub but after his workout and what we heard about him...I went back to the tape. There is speed lag now that you look for it. He didn't work out well in LB drills. With his health concerns and how he struggles at the point of attack against the run...He doesn't scream "Steeler 1st rounder" to me. They were talking about Jones on NFL Network last night because Brandt dropped him out of the first too just like Moore after his poor workouts. Its funny that "some" people in here kick Moore in the gut down the road after what he did but Jones doesn't get the same treatment.

    There just really isn't a day 1 OLB we could get at #17. I know Jones played 3-4 OLB but he didn't play 3-4 Steelers OLB. He was in attack mode 90% of the time & when he did drop it was to a zone. After looking at them all hard, the one with the most UPSIDE that could fit what the Steelers like is Mingo. Mingo has to get stronger and he won't see the field his rookie year unless there is an injury. You look at Jordan, Ansah, & Werner. Can they play 3-4 OLB? I think they could but it won't be day 1 for the Steelers. The problem with them is they look so good with their hand in the dirt a 4-3 team will jump all over them because they are a day 1 plug & play at that spot. Their value is much higher on their board than the Steelers.

    I'm not saying this to get the Jones camp stirred up. It is MY opionion based on what the Steelers do. When I put my GM hat on and look internally I look at that position as a need but not as a 1st. If the questions were answered about Worilds it would be easier know what direction. If Woodley & Worilds give you double digit sacks in 2013 & you draft Jones...You really might have wasted a 1st round pick. They will select a OLB in rounds 2-4 IMO, so if Worilds doesn't produce or Woodley doesn't get back to form...You have something to work with. It is a certainty that they need 1 or 2 safeties for 2014. They also need a WR, TE, RB now. They may decide to address ILB like Spence isn't here. They made their investment to replace Harrison...Time to get a return on that investment. There is no RB worthy of a 1st round pick. I truely feel that a pick in the 1st at WR, S, TE, & ILB all help the Steelers sooner than later over OLB. Some as fast as Day 1 or mid season. If I'm wrong...I will say I am wrong. That just won't happen until the card is turned in.
    Moore and Jones both have work ethic problems. Don't want either one of them at 17. More money isn't going to give them better work ethics. Money just makes you more of what you are.

    Call me crazy, but I'm taking Tank Carradine at 17. He is a top 10 pick any other year. He's going to sit for a year in Lebeau's system even if he was healthy.

    Take him at 17 and get a stud for years to come.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...ank-carradine/
    Last edited by BigRob; 04-04-2013 at 01:45 PM.
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