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Thread: wide receivers at combine

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRob View Post
    2005 Superbowl winning receivers: Hines Ward, Antwan Randle-El, Cedrick Wilson.

    Just saying.
    its 2013 and passing offenses have exploded since then

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    I think that Brown can easily be an X...

    He is within 1 inch, 6 lbs and .02 sec 40 time of Santonio Holmes' numbers at the NFL combine...

    Holmes was an excellent X WR for us...Brown can be as well...
    Holmes was a tenth faster than Brown. Holmes is much better beating the jamb and getting off the Line. Im a big fan of Brown. Being a better person doesn't make you a better WR.

    Holmes had more than double the TDS than Brown in his first three years. When Brown can do that against a Ds #1 CB as an X...Then I will believe he is an X. He got half the TD's against #2's and nickel backs. Understand the x's & o's...Brown has a ways to go to prove he can be an X.



  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    Holmes was a tenth faster than Brown. Holmes is much better beating the jamb and getting off the Line. Im a big fan of Brown. Being a better person doesn't make you a better WR.

    Holmes had more than double the TDS than Brown in his first three years. When Brown can do that against a Ds #1 CB as an X...Then I will believe he is an X. He got half the TD's against #2's and nickel backs. Understand the x's & o's...Brown has a ways to go to prove he can be an X.
    Again, I disagree...

    Holmes ran almost a tenth faster than Brown's combine number at the OSU Pro Day, on a notoriously fast track...at the combine, it was only .02 faster...

    Brown is also very good at beating the jam and getting off the line...certainly better than any other WR on the Steelers last year...he was beating Nnamdi Asomougha off the line vs. Philly...when you can do that, you have some skills...

    Yes, Holmes did score more in his first three years...Holmes was also a first round draft pick and a much more polished product coming from a much larger college program...Buckeyes vs. Chippewas...

    I'm less concerned with what Brown did in his first three years than I am with what Brown will do over the next few seasons with the Steelers...you may not believe that he has the tools, but I do...hopefully, for the good of the team, I hope I'm right...

  4. #44
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    For the record..

    Santonio Holmes:
    5'10" 188lbs
    40 Yard (Pro Day)- 4.35
    Vertical Jump (Pro Day)- 38"
    Broad Jump (Pro Day)- 10'6"
    20 Yard Shuttle- 4.26
    3 Cone- 6.82

    Antonio Brown:
    5'10" 186lbs
    40 Yard (Pro Day)- 4.48
    Vertical Jump (Combine)- 33.5"
    Broad Jump (Combine)- 8'09"
    20 Yard Shuttle- 4.18
    3 Cone- 6.98

    Mike Wallace:
    6'1" 199lbs
    40 Yard- 4.28
    Vertical Jump- 40"
    Broad Jump- 10'09"
    20 Yard Shuttle- 4.27
    3 Cone- 6.90

    As you can see, for simple speed & explosiveness drills (40 yard, vertical & broad), Santonio Holmes & Mike Wallace are more comparable than Brown & Holmes.

    Brown has greater 20 yard numbers- agility scores- which could be why he's better suited to small area running than on deeper routes that Wallace & Holmes are excellent at.

    It's not a knock on Brown, but comparing him to Holmes is more due to his size than any other measurable.
    Schiavone's Race Career:

    Starts- 9
    Wins- 1
    2nd- 4
    3rd- 0
    Other- 4

    Prizemoney- $28,050.00


  5. #45
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    WRs i will be happy with (not in any particular order): Cordelle, Justin Hunter, Da Rick Rodgers, Nuk Hopkins, M Austin, Kennan Allen, Markus Wheaton

    I will be very skeptical of drafting Terrence Williams and Cobi Hamilton because of their small hand size.
    Steelers Draft
    Rd 1: Mike Evans - WR
    Rd 2: Kyle Van Noy - ILB/OLB
    Rd 3c: Philip Gaines - CB
    Rd 4: Taylor Hart - DE
    Rd 5: Justin Ellis - DT
    Rd 5c:Xavier Grimble -TE

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Again, I disagree...

    Holmes ran almost a tenth faster than Brown's combine number at the OSU Pro Day, on a notoriously fast track...at the combine, it was only .02 faster...

    Brown is also very good at beating the jam and getting off the line...certainly better than any other WR on the Steelers last year...he was beating Nnamdi Asomougha off the line vs. Philly...when you can do that, you have some skills...

    Yes, Holmes did score more in his first three years...Holmes was also a first round draft pick and a much more polished product coming from a much larger college program...Buckeyes vs. Chippewas...

    I'm less concerned with what Brown did in his first three years than I am with what Brown will do over the next few seasons with the Steelers...you may not believe that he has the tools, but I do...hopefully, for the good of the team, I hope I'm right...
    You can disagree with the facts Slap. The information is there for you but disagreeing with it doesn't make it wrong. I'm not going to argue about 40 times if you think that is what makes someone an X. Now we are using excuses about 1st round versus 5th round. There was a reason Brown was around in the 5th and Holmes went in the 1st. I commend Brown on his work ethic. He will only get better...But he may never be a true X. That doesn't mean he can't be great. I am a big fan of Browns and hate arguing about his short comings. That just may be the reality of it though.

    The Eagles game is your argument killer? Did you watch the game? Brown had 7 catches..Good game. I believe he had 3 catches on NA, 2 on Cromartie, and 2 on Boykin. The highlights are still on NFL.com. Go watch and tell me how many times you see Brown being pressed. They have his 19 yarder on their against NA. Guess what? Motion into bunch with off covergae. Free release on a 5 yard hitch and NA misses the tackle coming up 10 yards off the LOS. Brown to X would be wide left with a CB in press..2 deep man under.

    Why is Wallace an X? Nobody has enough hair on their nuts to press Wallace 24-7 with no S help. If he faced CBs that could run with him and press he would struggle to be very productive until he learned how. Wallace's God given abilities makes teams account for him off coverage because there isn't many that can run with him. Even..He is leavin. To press Wallace means you have to put a S over the Top. Teams do that and take him out of games. That is still a win for the Steelers but the other WRs have to win their battles and the run game SHOULD flourish. Now some football. Wallace outside X strongside. What does that do? The SS can't walk up in the box and help against the run if they want to press. You use that as an OC. You overload with 2 TE off motion. You make them walk the SS up. You run it down their throat until they do. So now the CB has to play off coverage against Wallace. I know people hate this. But BB checks to his quicks to Wallace. Soon the CB cheats up. It is a chess match. It may look like a dumb A$$ play but it is all part of a plan. With Brown out there, the CB will cheat up and press. He will have to get off the line. Brown is easily redirected in press. The timing will be hurt. Get ready for alot of back shoulder throws.

    The Steelers use motion & bunch to get the D out of press because their WR group is small in stature. Sound familiar? The bunch we all hate so much that we seem for so many years. That is why you see it alot EVEN with Arians gone. That is a good scheme if you are passing but you have to show run out of that too. Problem is it brings more guys near the LOS who are not accounted for in the blocking scheme. So now you need WR that can block well. If you have a great WR ala Ward...You could even use him on Wham blocks. He could dig an OLB or SS. This is the luv-hate with this scheme. Use bunch & motion to free up your WRs release...But they will have to block. Blocking isn't a strong point for Wallace, Brown, or Sanders. So because of that you see 12 & 22 personnel to bunch the TEs to help block but that put 1 or 2 Wrs on the field. One of the reasons Miller had a huge year was because Haley would release Miller more than Arians would. But you have to be successful running out of it to make them walk up the SS. Now you attack vertical with Wallace. The Steelers weren't successful running out of it in 2012. The big problem now if Wallace leaves, DCs will be more comfortable walking the S up. Brown will draw press outside. He will HAVE to show he could beat it more often than not.

    I'm not questioning Browns skills as a WR...Just the outside guy. He hasn't been in that role for a full season and things will change drastically with no Wallace. To be honest, if they do sign Breaston, Breaston or Sanders may be their best option there and let Brown stay inside. I would hate to hinder what Brown can bring to the offense. He can prove me wrong and I hope he does. S Smith was a little more exposive coming out...But S Smith was the exception. Maybe Brown can be too.



  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    Can't agree... I really like Brown's all around ability but he's not Mike Wallace. Wallace is comparable to a young Randy Moss as far as his deep threat capabilities are concerned. Speed kills. He has the speed to just blow by defenders and the ability to catch 50+ yard bombs in full stride and make it look easy... That is what was so maddening about some of Wallaces drops on shorter routes last year...
    Randy Moss comparing his place against Jerry Rice has a lot more credibility than comparing Wallace with Moss.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by calmkiller View Post
    Stedman Bailey is IMO the best receiver in the draft if you are looking for an outside receiver. He doesn't have the blazing speed but he has great body control and catches everything thrown at him. He understands how to run routes as well. Tavon Austin is the best play maker in the draft but he is not an outside receiver. Put him in our system in place of Rainey and watch the points go up.
    As this guy has said, if you want a play maker, Tavon is your guy! Yes. He isn't tall like a Plaxico B. or Mike Wallace but he is fast, quick and makes plays!

    Stedman Bailey will also be steal for a team in the 3rd Round! I would love for the Steelers to draft one of these two guys!! I think both of them will play for a long time in the NFL! Plus they could use Tavon for Kickoff Returns.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    You can disagree with the facts Slap. The information is there for you but disagreeing with it doesn't make it wrong. I'm not going to argue about 40 times if you think that is what makes someone an X. Now we are using excuses about 1st round versus 5th round. There was a reason Brown was around in the 5th and Holmes went in the 1st. I commend Brown on his work ethic. He will only get better...But he may never be a true X. That doesn't mean he can't be great. I am a big fan of Browns and hate arguing about his short comings. That just may be the reality of it though.
    There is also a reason why guys like James Harrison and Willie Parker went undrafted...again, not concerned so much with the past, but with the future...

    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    The Eagles game is your argument killer? Did you watch the game? Brown had 7 catches..Good game. I believe he had 3 catches on NA, 2 on Cromartie, and 2 on Boykin. The highlights are still on NFL.com. Go watch and tell me how many times you see Brown being pressed. They have his 19 yarder on their against NA. Guess what? Motion into bunch with off covergae. Free release on a 5 yard hitch and NA misses the tackle coming up 10 yards off the LOS. Brown to X would be wide left with a CB in press..2 deep man under.
    Yes I did watch the game, which is why I specifically referenced it. No, it is not the "argument killer", it is merely an example...when I watched the game, I was actually amazed at how well Brown got off the line with NA right in his face...that's why I brought it up...now, whether or not he caught the ball on a given play is different...I was speaking merely in terms of how well he got off the LoS in that particular game...

    More later...I have to go back to work...

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by steeler_fan_in_t.o. View Post
    Randy Moss comparing his place against Jerry Rice has a lot more credibility than comparing Wallace with Moss.
    You musn't have read all of my posts and thought is this thread... I'm only comparing his vertical ability and the fact he can blow by a defender and snag a huge game breaking play like Moss... That we will miss if it's not replaced.

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