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Thread: Ike vs Lewis

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Don't forget Curtis Brown as CB #4. We're probably deeper at CB than anytime I can remember.
    I'm not sold on Brown as a corner. I actually prefer Victorian. He doesn't have the pedigree, but he does seem to have a nose for the ball. I could see Victorian developing into an interesting #3 or #4 CB or being out of the league next year; wouldn't be surprised by either.

  2. #32
    Legend RuthlessBurgher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    He's a twist. Cut Ryan Clark and get Ike to take a lower salary and put him at Free Safety.
    I hate this idea (but still won't call you two morons...maybe imbeciles, though...just kidding). Ryan Clark was one of only two guys on defense last season to play anything even remotely close to Pro Bowl type ball (the other was Timmons). But let's replace him with a much more expensive guy who has never played the position before and can't catch the ball to save his life.

  3. #33
    Pro Bowler supersteeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    Any OLB we get has to be able to get to the passer first and foremost. Stopping the run is secondary.

    Yeah, Sign Lewis and get a OLB who can stop the run, play pass coverage well, and get to the QB on a regular basis then we're good to go....on defense. Providing Woodley is back to form and the line steps up.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradshawsHairdresser View Post
    I'm not as worried about the Steelers cutting vets as I am doubtful that they will choose to actually do enough of it to squeeze out a new contract for Lewis. I don't see them cutting Clark...they might axe Keisel, but that's not going to be enough. They're already talking about bringing Harrison back--hopefully, he'll come back for less $$, but will it be enough to really help re-sign Lewis? As for your other suggestion, I don't think it's a good idea to restructure or extend Miller (don't know if he'll come back healthy), or Woodley (don't know if he'll ever be productive again), or Big Ben (they've already restructured him so much that his $10 million annual salary equals a $20 million cap hit--how much bigger do you dare make that number?).
    I will assume most of your comments are based on you not having the resources to view contracts & cap hits. The suggestions I made gives the Steelers enough room under rule 51. That means they will be cap compliant, have enough cap room to tender RFA, and money for their draft pool. That also gives them some room for Lewis & URFA. I mentioned the "year 1" of Lewis's deal being cap friendly which will be what is done until additonal vet salaries & dead money will be purged in 2013. Browns 6/43 mil was a cap hit of 2.2 mil for 2014. Even CB Carr's 5/50 had a year 1 cap hit of 3.2 mil. Possibly now you see why it is a deal that can get done. Getting Lewis in under the cap in 2013 is not difficult.

    Just to Add to Brown's contract. People keep suggesting restructuring Brown. Browns 6.2 mil for 2013 only has a 2 mil base. That isn't alot to work with.

    Cutting Clark frees up 3.5 mil. Cuting Keisel frees up 2.8. Both in last year of deal. I don't understand why you don't see the math. If you have to cut either of them in addition to everything else to retain Lewis...Do it. Both were very productive in 2012. Heyward is behind Keisel. Nobody of signficance behind Clark. If Clark is cut..I have the feeling that the Steelers will move Troy to FS and draft a SS early. Troy being around the LOS at this point in his career might not be "fruitful". Draft Cyprien...Who they are high on....Move Troy to FS and let him use his instincts & play CF.

    The talk of Harrison is garble. We will see what happens in March. Harrison's agent said he won't take a pay cut. Whatever you think they can restructure will be dead money created in 2014. His 10 mil cap hit in 2013 has 4.4 mil of bonus & his min. That is the cheapest Harrison can play for. That would create almost 7 mil of dead money in 2014 if you release him or have him play a 14.5 mil contract. Which will be funny on this board because people will want him to play at that because he played 12 games and got 60+ tackles & 5 sacks in 2013 with 2 sacks in the final game. But that would be a bargain because #92 was on the field at the expense of retaining Lewis. Only cost Rooney a top young corner and 7 mil out of his pocket for Harrison's services in 2013. That isn't a smart business decision.

    Miller had one of his best years in 2012. He may start on the PUP and not be himself until 2014...But guess what? You still have to pay him his 7.9 mil. So you add a year in 2015 and spread the hit & hope for the best. His injury is bad timing.

    Don't have a choice with Woodley. He is scheduled to make 13.2 mil this year after a terrible 2012. You restructure him and he goes on notice. He better have a highly productive 2013. You have to hope it will motivate him to return to form. Even with the restructure his cap hits through 2016 would be in line if productive. If he has another done year...The Steelers are in trouble with his contact with or without the restructure. Getting the relief in 2013 with the cap situation is the focus. His age & early contract term makes him a candidate.

    BB's status is perfect. 11.6 of his 19.5 is base. His averages right now are 19.5, 14.8, & 14.3. You convert his base and add a year. His averages can be in the 18-19 mil his last three & right in line. He will be 34 if you add a year.

    That all being said, retaining Lewis is the target. Easily done in the 7-8 mil avg range. A 2013 hit for Lewis can be structured in the 2-4 mil range. If cutting Harrison, Keisel or Clark, & Colon has to be done to get it done I'm all for it..But I do think they still will be able to hang on to Kiesel & Clark for 2013.

    Cutting Harrison & Colon this year creates space now but the thing many aren't considering is absorbing the dead money in 2013 before the 2014 cap. Cutting Harrison & Colon this year and taking the hit essentially clears 11.5 mil next year under the cap. So with that in mind and Clark & Keisel contracts expiring after 2013...You are already looking at 20 mil available in 2014 for contract escalations & the many young RFA who will be ready for new contracts. Add in possible Taylor & Polamalu cuts in 2014 (Another 14-15 mil savings)...Purge almost complete. Have to flip the cap over the next two years to the youth and stay competitive. That is the "business" side of the equation.



  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    I hate this idea (but still won't call you two morons...maybe imbeciles, though...just kidding). Ryan Clark was one of only two guys on defense last season to play anything even remotely close to Pro Bowl type ball (the other was Timmons). But let's replace him with a much more expensive guy who has never played the position before and can't catch the ball to save his life.
    I agree about Clark on his production....But the Steelers still let productive players go at the end of their careers when salary becomes an issue. Clark will be 34 during the season. We both know best case...2013 is his last year here. He is expendable if need be. I never suggested Taylor to FS. I do believe "IF" it was to happen they may move Troy to FS to get him away from the LOS. Or Possibly bring back Allen for FS until Cyprien, Ellam, or Swearinger are ready for SS. I do believes SS is higher on their list of concerns because they need a support S around the LOS.



  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersteeler View Post
    Yeah, Sign Lewis and get a OLB who can stop the run, play pass coverage well, and get to the QB on a regular basis then we're good to go....on defense. Providing Woodley is back to form and the line steps up.
    My comment was priority of abilities--getting to the QB first, pass coverage, and stopping the run.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  7. #37
    Hall of Famer Mister Pittsburgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    I agree about Clark on his production....But the Steelers still let productive players go at the end of their careers when salary becomes an issue. Clark will be 34 during the season. We both know best case...2013 is his last year here. He is expendable if need be. I never suggested Taylor to FS. I do believe "IF" it was to happen they may move Troy to FS to get him away from the LOS. Or Possibly bring back Allen for FS until Cyprien, Ellam, or Swearinger are ready for SS. I do believes SS is higher on their list of concerns because they need a support S around the LOS.
    To me, if you NEED a support Safety near the line of scrimmage, then something is wrong with your team. We seemed to play some pretty damn good defense without Troy even on the field and Will Allen back there at SS playing SS, not 5th LB.

    If it was me, I'm cutting Troy to free up money. The guy makes a lot and does not wreak havoc like he used to. Enough with the gimmicky BS and get good at winning one on one battles.
    @_Hellgrammite

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
    To me, if you NEED a support Safety near the line of scrimmage, then something is wrong with your team. We seemed to play some pretty damn good defense without Troy even on the field and Will Allen back there at SS playing SS, not 5th LB.

    If it was me, I'm cutting Troy to free up money. The guy makes a lot and does not wreak havoc like he used to. Enough with the gimmicky BS and get good at winning one on one battles.
    No... if he is injured this year then you cut him but IMO he is still a game changer and may have 2 or 3 years left.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
    To me, if you NEED a support Safety near the line of scrimmage, then something is wrong with your team. We seemed to play some pretty damn good defense without Troy even on the field and Will Allen back there at SS playing SS, not 5th LB. If it was me, I'm cutting Troy to free up money. The guy makes a lot and does not wreak havoc like he used to. Enough with the gimmicky BS and get good at winning one on one battles.
    We were pretty good on defense as a whole but our run D wasn't elite. Troy was always famous for making a splash play of a TFL or stopping a 3rd and short. Pollard for the Ravens is doing what Troy used to and coming up big when someone needs to make a play. Not putting a S near the LOS means there is something wrong with your team. It means your back end & LB coverage isn't good enough to walk a SS up and try & make a play or make the QB auduble out. Will Allen was back at SS playing SS because he CAN'T do what Troy or Pollard does. DL knows his players limitations so putting him in Troy's role would have been a terrible coaching decision.

    I will be the first to say Clark outplayed Polamalu last year. I will be the first to also say I would be in favor of cutting Clark before Troy. Not on 2012 production. Clark's age has something to do with it. Troy still has something to offer. Troy still has incredible instincts and can make up ground in a hurry. But you need to get him off the LOS and prolong his career. Troy plays alot of centerfield in sub packages so it won't a big transformation. He will just be back there in base and that will allow DL to continue with his same defense if he gets a Cyprien, Ellam, or Swearringer. Troy has more years in him and more plays than Clark. I also would rather a S learning from Troy. Just my thoughts.



  10. #40
    Pro Bowler BigRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    Draft Cyprien...Who they are high on
    This is interesting. Where did you learn this fact? I like Cyprien, but I'm not ruling out Vaccaro at 17 if he is available. Vaccaro would probably have a good chance to start game 1 at SS if Clark is cut.
    Here comes the BOOM!

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