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Thread: The case FOR Harrison

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    A team with cap space and a need for a top 5 ROLB in a 34 defense and is willing to take a one year risk that's the team that will sign him. He'd be worth 3 million for a year plus a bonus. He played 13 games and stays in shape, he went into the off season healthy. I believe he'll get through a 16 game season without major injury and some team will be getting some real attitude to their defense.

    Pappy
    The Browns have an insane amount of cap space, among other teams. The Eagles have a ton of cap space and could use some nasty. There are plenty of teams that could give James 5 or even 6 million for a year or two.

    I'm one of those who thinks the Steelers defense will be a lot worse without James Harrison. Worilds is touted as a replacement, but he gets banged up all the time. Staying healthy is a skill, and one that he does not seem to have.

    If there was a way to restructure Harrison, I'd love to see it happen. Perhaps a pay cut this year in exchange for guaranteeing his salary and then adding on a third year to spread the hit of his restructured bonus, something along those lines.

    After Harrison was not restructured last year, I feared that it was a precursor to his release this offseason (as there is less dead money). I fear that that is the most likely result, but I'm still holding out some optimism.

  2. #22
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    He said he has renegotiated his contract twice in the past to help the Steelers get under the salary cap in recent years.


    i laugh evrytime i read crap like this. is anybody out there stupid enough to believe that the player actually gave up something to help the team out cap-wise?

    'hey james, can you help us out here'
    'whats up'
    'would you be willing to restructure your contract?"
    'maybe. how?'
    'quite simple. instead of you having to wait 5 years to collect 10 millions dollars, we will give all of it to you right now. no strings attached. yours forever even if you get hurt or released'
    'well, i'm not sure i want that guaranteed money, but if it helps the team i'll do it.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by squidkid View Post
    He said he has renegotiated his contract twice in the past to help the Steelers get under the salary cap in recent years.


    i laugh evrytime i read crap like this. is anybody out there stupid enough to believe that the player actually gave up something to help the team out cap-wise?

    'hey james, can you help us out here'
    'whats up'
    'would you be willing to restructure your contract?"
    'maybe. how?'
    'quite simple. instead of you having to wait 5 years to collect 10 millions dollars, we will give all of it to you right now. no strings attached. yours forever even if you get hurt or released'
    'well, i'm not sure i want that guaranteed money, but if it helps the team i'll do it.
    I agree... it's crazy for the FO and the player to benefit from a restructure. Someone has to get screwed... was it the fans?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by phillyesq View Post
    The Browns have an insane amount of cap space, among other teams. The Eagles have a ton of cap space and could use some nasty. There are plenty of teams that could give James 5 or even 6 million for a year or two.
    That is true, but WILL those teams give a 35 year old, oft injured player 5-6 million for a year or two?

    I have strong doubts...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    That is true, but WILL those teams give a 35 year old, oft injured player 5-6 million for a year or two?

    I have strong doubts...
    I've seen these teams give much worse players more money... I could see it happening. All it takes is one team.

  6. #26
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    I'm one & I will take this head on.

    I do watch the games. At least twice. Once as a fan like everyone else and then other times to evaluate. I will tell you this, after the season ended I went back and watched every game from Blatimore 2 to the end. All intensions were to look at our front seven because 4 of them are coming to the end.

    Harrison just got stiff. His body doesn't have the ability to flex to be an edge rusher. Back & knee injuries combined with a stout maxed out frame at 35 has caught up to him. Your body has to be able to get into a proper angle to use your leverage to gain the upfield shoulder of the LT and rip. If you lose your ankle deflection, strength in knees to power through force at an angle, and the back strength to maintain leverage when engaged...It goes downhill fast. Harrison is a blunt downhill pass rusher right now. If a LT gets his punch in on Harrison's shoulders and moves his feet upfield, Harrison folds and is re-routed. He loses the leverage battle before he could rip under. He has become more of a motor rush and hoping he can out quick the LT by showing him enough inside counters & bull rushes. I luv Harrison and what he did for the Steelers. The arrow is pointing in the wrong direction on him.

    I keep hearing the "He had a sack in 5 of the last seven games, with two strip fumbles created." "Defense terrible in the begining and better when he came back." Harrison was coming on at the end of the season.' "Best OLB the Steelers have." Steelers defense always comes on stronger as the year goes on. Troy came back for the last 5 games...Maybe it was him. (That was sarcastic.) We will stay with that theory. That theory is what shows the truth. Woodley had a horrible year. He will have to rebound. So Harrison was better than Woodley..I agree. That's it and is that really an accomplishment given the way Woodley played? Is there anyone else you could truley say he was better than when the next OLB started 3 games and got 27 TT & 5 sacks with 30% of his snaps compared to 13 games started 70 TT & 6 sacks? No...You can't.

    So to stay with the coming on strong at the end of the year and a sack in 5 of his last 7 games theory. In week 13, end of season where Harrison is Coming on, the Steelers pull out a win over the Ravens without BB to get themselves into position to make a run. Harrison has a good game pitching in 7 tackles, 1 sack with a FF on the sack. The Steelers sit 7-5 and still alive. They put themselves in must-win-control-your-own-destiny-playoff-mode. So over the next 3 games, 2 home & 1 on the road against SD, DAL, & CIN....Harrison goes 10 TT 1 Sack 1 FF in 3 straight losses. Anyone else hear crickets? He has a sack but if I am correct he got credit for 1 sack for 0 yards in the Bengals game. I believe it was on the FG miss drive at the end of the game where Troy blitzed fee and Dalton ran out of shotgun and got tackled at the LOS to stay in FG range. Regardless...10-1-1 in three must win games. Is that "a beast" or coming on strong? You witnessed a break down of a soon to be 35 year old LB. It is a young mans game. If you don't agree with that...The other option would be lack of effort. It's James Harrison, I don't think that was the case.

    7-8 as a result going into a meaningless game against a non playoff team who is 5-11. You can't use Harrison's stats in this game as any indication of where Harrison is at in his career. Where was he the last three games when the games counted? The body just wouldn't go. Harrison was in career survival mode against a team who has been the epidemy of underachievers. Everyone on that field was going to their complexes the next day and getting ready for the exit meetings & the offseason. 5 sacks in his last 7 games doesn't sound so good anymore.

    This Harrison issue is about production, age, cap hit, and what the risk is on losing young players. It isn't about how much we luv the guy or what he did for the Steelers. Harrison isn't going to get this team to the SB. The ceiling for 2013 is in the hands of the coaches, BB, the young guys next in line, and the draft class. Moving on from some of the older vets may be the difference of 2-3 games on the bad side but it very well could be an parallel or upgrade...We don't know. I think more importantly is we do something that has to be done anyway in the near future if it allows the Steelers to hold on to players that will be a big part of the future.
    Last edited by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY; 02-15-2013 at 12:16 PM.



  7. #27
    Hall of Famer Djfan's Avatar
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    Keep him. Restructure or whatever, but he is a game changer.

    Plus, he brings in more revenues to the NFL office.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz View Post
    I've seen these teams give much worse players more money... I could see it happening. All it takes is one team.
    Who? Which players?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    I'm one & I will take this head on.

    I do watch the games. At least twice. Once as a fan like everyone else and then other times to evaluate. I will tell you this, after the season ended I went back and watched every game from Blatimore 2 to the end. All intensions were to look at our front seven because 4 of them are coming to the end.

    Harrison just got stiff. His body doesn't have the ability to flex to be an edge rusher. Back & knee injuries combined with a stout maxed out frame at 35 has caught up to him. Your body has to be able to get into a proper angle to use your leverage to gain the upfield shoulder of the LT and rip. If you lose your ankle deflection, strength in knees to power through force at an angle, and the back strength to maintain leverage when engaged...It goes downhill fast. Harrison is a blunt downhill pass rusher right now. If a LT gets his punch in on Harrison's shoulders and moves his feet upfield, Harrison folds and is re-routed. He loses the leverage battle before he could rip under. He has become more of a motor rush and hoping he can out quick the LT by showing him enough inside counters & bull rushes. I luv Harrison and what he did for the Steelers. The arrow is pointing in the wrong direction on him.

    I keep hearing the "He had a sack in 5 of the last seven games, with two strip fumbles created." "Defense terrible in the begining and better when he came back." Harrison was coming on at the end of the season.' "Best OLB the Steelers have." Steelers defense always comes on stronger as the year goes on. Troy came back for the last 5 games...Maybe it was him. (That was sarcastic.) We will stay with that theory. That theory is what shows the truth. Woodley had a horrible year. He will have to rebound. So Harrison was better than Woodley..I agree. That's it and is that really an accomplishment given the way Woodley played? Is there anyone else you could truley say he was better than when the next OLB started 3 games and got 27 TT & 5 sacks with 30% of his snaps compared to 13 games started 70 TT & 6 sacks? No...You can't.

    So to stay with the coming on strong at the end of the year and a sack in 5 of his last 7 games theory. In week 13, end of season where Harrison is Coming on, the Steelers pull out a win over the Ravens without BB to get themselves into position to make a run. Harrison has a good game pitching in 7 tackles, 1 sack with a FF on the sack. The Steelers sit 7-5 and still alive. They put themselves in must-win-control-your-own-destiny-playoff-mode. So over the next 3 games, 2 home & 1 on the road against SD, DAL, & CIN....Harrison goes 10 TT 1 Sack 1 FF in 3 straight losses. Anyone else hear crickets? He has a sack but if I am correct he got credit for 1 sack for 0 yards in the Bengals game. I believe it was on the FG miss drive at the end of the game where Troy blitzed fee and Dalton ran out of shotgun and got tackled at the LOS to stay in FG range. Regardless...10-1-1 in three must win games. Is that "a beast" or coming on strong? You witnessed a break down of a soon to be 35 year old LB. It is a young mans game. If you don't agree with that...The other option would be lack of effort. It's James Harrison, I don't think that was the case.

    7-8 as a result going into a meaningless game against a non playoff team who is 5-11. You can't use Harrison's stats in this game as any indication of where Harrison is at in his career. Where was he the last three games when the games counted? The body just wouldn't go. Harrison was in career survival mode against a team who has been the epidemy of underachievers. Everyone on that field was going to their complexes the next day and getting ready for the exit meetings & the offseason. 5 sacks in his last 7 games doesn't sound so good anymore.

    This Harrison issue is about production, age, cap hit, and what the risk is on losing young players. It isn't about how much we luv the guy or what he did for the Steelers. Harrison isn't going to get this team to the SB. The ceiling for 2013 is in the hands of the coaches, BB, the young guys next in line, and the draft class. Moving on from some of the older vets may be the difference of 2-3 games on the bad side but it very well could be an parallel or upgrade...We don't know. I think more importantly is we do something that has to be done anyway in the near future if it allows the Steelers to hold on to players that will be a big part of the future.
    You watch the games right? Twice? You do better than I do, much respect.

    How in the heck is he "washed up" when NO 3/4 OLBer IN THE LEAGUE gets to the ball more than he does?

    Sacks are ONE FACET, one where he did come on late.

    There is ONE ROLE that all defensive players have in common. End the offensive play.
    No Olber is more productive at that then Harrison PERIOD.
    Not just two years ago, not back when he was DMVP, he ends the play more than all his peers TODAY.

    Did Greg Llloyd put up HUGE sack numbers? No! Was Jason Gildon better than Lloyd? If you go by sacks alone Gildon is an alltime great.

    Llloyd made stops, just like Harrison continues to do.

    We get the return of the most productive tackler IN THE LEAGUE at his position and our defense improves by leaps and bounds. Just a coincidence? I dont think so.
    Remember when people screams at how teams were running AT Ziggy with success? Ziggy is on the other side with Woodley. Smart teams dont run at Harrison, yet he STILL makes plays.

    You said Woodley had a down year. Harrison had more tackles than Woodley has EVER HAD, at his finest. Harrison did that with no September.
    Beloved Joey Porter bested 70 tt ONCE in his storied career.

    Every tackle is a play on the ball. Nobody at his position makes more plays than Harrison, period.

    So many players are "all sack no substance". Keep him off your QB and his game is worthless.

    Harrison's value goes way beyond just the sacks.

  10. #30
    Pro Bowler BigRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradshawsHairdresser View Post
    Harrison is still one of the best run-defending OLBs in the league. 70 tackles isn't shabby, even if you don't consider the effects of the injury the first half of the season. As far as pressure in the passing game, don't you think it became easier for teams to take away his effectiveness because there wasn't anyone else they had to worry much about? I do believe his coverage skills have eroded somewhat, but his teammate on the other side is not exactly a fleet-footed wonder--nor is Worilds, for that matter. Perhaps it will be different next season, but I don't think you would find anyone with an "objective opinion" who would think that Worilds was good enough to beat out Harrison last season. If you went merely by last season's level of play, it is Woodley, not Harrison, who ought to be concerned about getting beat out by Worilds.
    Did you see the part where I said he was still good in the run game? You don't pay 3-4 OLB'ers that much money to play well in the run game.

    Woodley is another one that needs to be on notice. However, he is much younger and will therefore get a chance to show it was just a poor two year period. Even Terrell Suggs had some down years.

    As for Worilds and his fleet footedness. I disagree with you. Worilds had a fantastic sub 1.6 10 yard split in the forty. He is explosive. His run defense is where he lacks and I think he can get better with reps.

    He will have a healthy offseason. Worilds will come to training camp ripped and strong.
    Here comes the BOOM!

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