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Thread: Decent BB Article

  1. #21
    Hall of Famer Sugar's Avatar
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    This article assumes much...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman View Post
    This is about right.

    Thing is- the Haley offense isn't bad. It just doesn't suit this group of players- outside of Heath Miller.

    If you are having trouble believing this to be the case- explain this: You have an all-pro QB that has made a living of moving around the pocket to make plays. He has, historically, taken a beating as a result of this, coupled with playing some less-than-stellar OL players in front of him (Mahan, Stapleton, Jonathon Scott.. need we continue?).

    You have a stable of exciting young WR. The leading WR for the last 3 years is a supreme deep-threat. We have no big, physical WR that can turn a short catch into a long run, or fight through traffic.

    We have a stable of average, unproven RB's outside of Mendenhall.

    So, in order to succeed, the Haley offense:

    Works on keeping Ben in the pocket more.

    Takes away the deep route & focuses on shorter routes.

    Puts more emphasis on running.


    It's like the Steelers looked at the players on Offense & said "how can we work against their strengths best?". Haley can't really be blamed- it was the Offense that he was hired to bring in. It was designed to keep Ben upright more, which it did, to a degree (anyone want to argue that by putting better OL players on the field they'd achieve the same results?).

    But Haley's offenses are all about timed routes, solid to spectacular running, physical WR play... essentially everything Pittsburgh doesn't do well.

    Not saying Haley's offense can't be implemented. It can. It'll need a more explosive RB, a bigger WR or 2, and Ben to change his style of QB play a bit.

    It can be done. It just doesn't fit the players we had last season.

    But Crash is right- if it's the offense style that we value over the QB's ability- this type of Offense devalues Ben. Alex Smith could run this offense just as effectively.

    May as well trade Ben for a couple of 1st round picks now...
    I am going to disagree with you here. Lets go back to the middle of the season. The Steelers were 6-3, and on a 4 game winning streak, with 2 of those wins coming over eventual playoff teams and another one over the Super Bowl Champs. Ben was having one of the finest seasons of his career and was being mentioned as a possible MVP candidate. I will also mention that in those first 3 loses it was hardly the offense that was costing us games.(Den, Oak, Ten).

    So what changed the entire season? To me it was the Roethlisberger injury. We went on to lose 2 of 3 without Ben. IMHO when Ben came back he was not 100% It was clear to me that while Ben could make most of the throws we are used to seeing him make, the arm strength simply wasnt there. This was evident to me especially on sideline throws.

    So how do we blame Haley for not utilizing his talent? Despite a revolving door offensive line, and running back situation. And despite a disgruntled star wide receiver. This team was 6-3 and looking like a potential Super Bowl Contender.

    With all the injuries and player drama we had on the offensive side of the ball, I actually think Haley did a solid job. It was the Ben injury that was the straw that broke the camels back. You say Haleys offense devalues Ben? I say for 9 games Haley got more out of Ben then any OC ever has.

  3. #23
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    With all the injuries and player drama we had on the offensive side of the ball, I actually think Haley did a solid job. It was the Ben injury that was the straw that broke the camels back. You say Haleys offense devalues Ben? I say for 9 games Haley got more out of Ben then any OC ever has.
    Don't disagree that Haley did a good job. He did what he was asked to do. But this offense puts Ben back into more that 'game manager' role. Ben would likely have success in most NFL Offensive gameplans. That doesn't mean that Haley's Offense was making the best use of what was available.
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  4. #24
    Our offensive line is not capable of pass protecting long enough for us to have a consistently good deep passing attack. So how is shortening up the routes not taking advantage of our strengths? Or I guess protecting us against our weaknesses might be a better way to put it.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by 7 UP View Post
    I am going to disagree with you here. Lets go back to the middle of the season. The Steelers were 6-3, and on a 4 game winning streak, with 2 of those wins coming over eventual playoff teams and another one over the Super Bowl Champs. Ben was having one of the finest seasons of his career and was being mentioned as a possible MVP candidate. I will also mention that in those first 3 loses it was hardly the offense that was costing us games.(Den, Oak, Ten).

    So what changed the entire season? To me it was the Roethlisberger injury. We went on to lose 2 of 3 without Ben. IMHO when Ben came back he was not 100% It was clear to me that while Ben could make most of the throws we are used to seeing him make, the arm strength simply wasnt there. This was evident to me especially on sideline throws.

    So how do we blame Haley for not utilizing his talent? Despite a revolving door offensive line, and running back situation. And despite a disgruntled star wide receiver. This team was 6-3 and looking like a potential Super Bowl Contender.

    With all the injuries and player drama we had on the offensive side of the ball, I actually think Haley did a solid job. It was the Ben injury that was the straw that broke the camels back. You say Haleys offense devalues Ben? I say for 9 games Haley got more out of Ben then any OC ever has.
    Ben was having the best season of his career, and staying upright for 9 games. Not sure why anyone would think Ben wasn't better in this system. He was better in a system he barely knew...what does that tell you? It would only get better...if Ben stays healthy.

  6. #26
    Ben needs to be put in a game manager role. That's where he is successful. As soon as you put then game on him, he pretends he's Superman, and at least recently has failed in that role. Shawn and 7up have it right. We need some competition in camp to push Ben, otherwise he will continue to regress.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSteel1 View Post
    Ben needs to be put in a game manager role. That's where he is successful. As soon as you put then game on him, he pretends he's Superman, and at least recently has failed in that role. Shawn and 7up have it right. We need some competition in camp to push Ben, otherwise he will continue to regress.
    Yeah - prior to the injury against KC, he sure looked like a QB who's regressed.

    Some people have a really short memory.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Eich View Post
    Yeah - prior to the injury against KC, he sure looked like a QB who's regressed.

    Some people have a really short memory.
    Read the post, he regresses when he doesn't take what's given to him. Haley's offense helped him, then he got injured and regresses back to old Ben. If he plays within the system he'll be successful, but if he plays backyard chuck it, he will continue to get worse.

  9. #29
    Hall of Famer Mister Pittsburgh's Avatar
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    If they want to run some run first, ball control, quick passing, game management type offense they should trade Ben for a couple first and second round picks and trade for an Alex Smith or Matt Flynn that is basically just a game manager and doesn't cost much. Load up the OL and get a stud RB. Thats the type of offense they want anyway.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
    If they want to run some run first, ball control, quick passing, game management type offense they should trade Ben for a couple first and second round picks and trade for an Alex Smith or Matt Flynn that is basically just a game manager and doesn't cost much. Load up the OL and get a stud RB. Thats the type of offense they want anyway.
    The only way Ben can be successful is to be in a game manager role. He isn't consistent enough nor does he read defenses well enough to freelance all of the time. I wouldn't be adverse to trading him if I could get a young guy who can play within a system. I'm not afraid that Ben is the only guy who can get this team to a Super Bowl. We have alot of players and a coaching staff that has been there now. It isn't the holy grail that it was in the 80's and 90's. We need a good backup and he needs a chance to compete for the spot.

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