Choose your weapon: Colon or Foster?

[papillon]

Unfortunately we still need to add better talent to the OL. It starts with retaining Starks which is a 50/50 probability at best. We have to bring in a coach who can develop DeCastro, Adams and Gilbert specifically with technique improvements. I think Tunch Ilkin could do the job if he wants it because he was a tremendous technician.

As much as we have many needs, if Chace Warmack is available in Round 1 then I would pick him. It wouldn't solve all our OL problems but it would solidify the interior line of DeCastro-Pouncey-Warmack for the next 5-7 years. That would be a major building block in place to move forward from.

I know many will have their heads spin in place taking OL in Round 1 but until we fix the OL and gain offensive consistency we will never win another championship. Our defense can't win games anymore without the offense running at full speed. The defense is too inadequete at sacking the QB and forcing turnovers.

Here's the issue with this line of thinking and taking Warmack. If your interior line is DeCastro-Pouncey-Warmack and lets assume the entire line is Adams-DeCastro-Pouncey-Warmack-Gilbert you already have 4 of the 5 on the roster. Do we really need to spend a first round pick on a top notch guard for the line to be successful? If you have 4 out of 5 players (2 first round picks and 2 second round picks) in place you should be good to go on the line, Foster isn't so horrible that he would cause that group to fail, IMHO.

Pappy

[flippy]

so its a double standard for you when it comes to starks. We need probowlers at all the interior OL positions but we can accept mediocrity at the hardest position on the OL.

Got it.

I dont think you guys are giving Starks enough credit. The only bad game he's had in the last several years was against SF last year. He got crushed by Aldon Smith. Now everyone gets crushed by Aldon, so it doesn't seem like the worst thing in retrospect.

A couple years back (2009 I think) he went on a streak where he wasn't letting anyone touch Ben and he was going up against some of the best pass rushers in the league on a weekly basis.

I think fans kind of treat Starks like Wally. He got tagged that one year and signed for an enormous amount for a year, then Tomlin liked Colon better for some reason and everyone turned on Max. I don't think Max ever did anything wrong other than get a bigger contract than the Steelers intended and the fans have held it against him forever.

And then on top of it, Max is one of the nicest/gentlest guys on the planet. And I think people take him not being mean/nasty as him being soft/inadequate which just isn't true. He's still very good. In fact if he had a mean streak, I bet everyone would think he was one of the best tackles on the planet.

The niceness takes away his edge.

[Oviedo]

I dont think you guys are giving Starks enough credit. The only bad game he's had in the last several years was against SF last year. He got crushed by Aldon Smith. Now everyone gets crushed by Aldon, so it doesn't seem like the worst thing in retrospect.

A couple years back (2009 I think) he went on a streak where he wasn't letting anyone touch Ben and he was going up against some of the best pass rushers in the league on a weekly basis.

I think fans kind of treat Starks like Wally. He got tagged that one year and signed for an enormous amount for a year, then Tomlin liked Colon better for some reason and everyone turned on Max. I don't think Max ever did anything wrong other than get a bigger contract than the Steelers intended and the fans have held it against him forever.

And then on top of it, Max is one of the nicest/gentlest guys on the planet. And I think people take him not being mean/nasty as him being soft/inadequate which just isn't true. He's still very good. In fact if he had a mean streak, I bet everyone would think he was one of the best tackles on the planet.

The niceness takes away his edge.

You are correct Flippy. Some don't want to give Starks credit because that would cause them to look elsewhere on the OL for the source of the problems. Most know that Pouncey and Starks are not the problems on the OL.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

No Starks was not mediocre. He was actually pretty good. The definition of mediocre would be both our Guards and our Right Tackle. I don't have the stats but I don't recall a whole lot of sacks being given up by Starks even though he usually faced the opponents best pass rusher week in and week out.

I do remeber lots of inside pressure as the interior of our OL got pushed back into the QB and got no push in short yardage situations.

So there is no double standard. Starks was better than whoever we had at RT and he was better all season long than Foster and Colon even if you don't want to admit it.

starks is most certainly a mediocre LT. There is a reason he was sitting on the couch 2 seasons in a row waiting for the steelers to call. Injury non withstanding. Maybe you value him too highly because you feel the rest of our OL is crap.

also if so much pressure is coming from the inside, why don't you beat up on pouncey and colon the way you do foster? According to some reading I have done the RG spot is the hardest spot along the interior because they usually face the opposing teams best inside rusher while the LG usually has help.

we will never agree on this issue. The problems of the OL are not the sole responsibility of Ramon Foster.

[Oviedo]

starks is most certainly a mediocre LT. There is a reason he was sitting on the couch 2 seasons in a row waiting for the steelers to call. Injury non withstanding. Maybe you value him too highly because you feel the rest of our OL is crap.

also if so much pressure is coming from the inside, why don't you beat up on pouncey and colon the way you do foster? According to some reading I have done the RG spot is the hardest spot along the interior because they usually face the opposing teams best inside rusher while the LG usually has help.

we will never agree on this issue. The problems of the OL are not the sole responsibility of Ramon Foster.

A mediocre LT is far more valuable than an average Guard. Our two Guards are both average at best.

The problems of the OL ARE NOT the sole responsibility of Foster as you say but he is also not the solution to the problem.

[steelz09]

starks is most certainly a mediocre LT. There is a reason he was sitting on the couch 2 seasons in a row waiting for the steelers to call. Injury non withstanding. Maybe you value him too highly because you feel the rest of our OL is crap.

also if so much pressure is coming from the inside, why don't you beat up on pouncey and colon the way you do foster? According to some reading I have done the RG spot is the hardest spot along the interior because they usually face the opposing teams best inside rusher while the LG usually has help.

we will never agree on this issue. The problems of the OL are not the sole responsibility of Ramon Foster.

Starks is easily one of the most underrated players on the Steelers roster.

[Oviedo]

Starks is easily one of the most underrated players on the Steelers roster.

..and has been for several years!

[Eddie Spaghetti]

I like starks, we won 2 superbowls with him and he saved our season a couple of years ago.

doesn't change the fact he is an average LT. This is his 10th year in the league. His best days are behind him.

[fezziwig]

Who was our left tackles prior to Starks ? Was it Marvel Smith and a couple of guys in between Smith and Starks ?

[Eddie Spaghetti]

they tried to roll jonathon scott out there at one time. That sure didn't work.

I guess it was marvel before max. I hope they bring max back, as he is the best option.