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Thread: If you believe in rumors....

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by D Rock View Post
    Harrison is without a doubt worth his cap numbers from 2009-2011...~6 million
    His cap number from 2012 is probably about the max of his value - ~9 million
    His cap number for 2013 is gonna be ~10 million as a 35 y.o. LB. I just can't see how that one works out with the current problems the team has with the cap.
    Agreed.....but the idea of not even attempting a restructure is ridiculous. 5 mil is a STEAL. I'd suggest 7 or 8 per season is fair, due to injury concerns.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Actually he is very much worth 5 mil a year. He is STILL our best OLBer, and only Timmons can compare to a 35 year old Harrison among ALL our LBers.

    When JH was out our defense was absolutely pathetic. With JH back we climbed back to number one.
    He had a sack in 5 of the last seven games. Had 11 tackles in the last game of the season.

    Woodley by comparison had around HALF the tackles that Harrison had.

    Harrison bested Woodleys CAREER HIGH for tackles in a season where he missed September and came back slowly in October.

    Aging Harrison had more total tackles (70) than ANY probowl OLBer in a season when he MISSED A MONTH.

    Clay Matthews, a probowler in his prime in full health in 16 games had 43 tackles compared to Harrisons 70.

    Aging injured JH is STILL the best run stopping 3/4 OLBER in this league bar none, and he closed the season with a sack in 5 of 7 games an elite pass rush level by any standard.

    Were it not for the fear of injury he would be ALL the money he is scheduled to make with no pay cut.

    Dude is worth more than 5 mil.....easy.

    You think we got guys on the bench who can replace that when PROWBOWLERS cant do what an aging JH does routinely.

    Again look at our defense at without JH. Remember what the stinkin RAIDERS looked like against us.

    THAT is what you have when JH aint playin.
    Very well said.

    We saw what happened when the Steelers tried to plug the gap with Carter - the results were abysmal.

    The player who was perhaps most impacted by Harrison is Timmons. Prior to Harrison's return, Timmons averaged a mere 4 tackles per game and made no splash plays. After Harrison returned, he averaged about 7.25 tackles per game and recorded all of his sacks, INTs, etc.

    Harrison not only remains a force - he elevates those around him.

    The issue with Harrison is this - he's going to take up a lot of cap space regardless of whether he's kept or not. Can they replace his production for less than the dead money + salary of the replacement -- the answer to that is almost certainly no.

  3. #43
    Pro Bowler D Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Agreed.....but the idea of not even attempting a restructure is ridiculous. 5 mil is a STEAL. I'd suggest 7 or 8 per season is fair, due to injury concerns.
    That's not a realistic option for Harrison because he only has 2 years left on his contract. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburg...ames-harrison/

    To restructure him this year you have to take some base salary and turn it into bonus between this year and next year. If you do that then you ensure yourself even more cap problems next year when you have no choice but to keep him on the roster or cut him and take all of that money you just restructured from 2012 and eat it as dead money.

    I'd say you either make the choice now and cut him and suffer the consequences of worse play, or keep him at his full value this year and probably cut him with minimal dead money next year. Neither one seems like a particularly good option.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Rock View Post
    Harrison is without a doubt worth his cap numbers from 2009-2011...~6 million
    His cap number from 2012 is probably about the max of his value - ~9 million
    His cap number for 2013 is gonna be ~10 million as a 35 y.o. LB. I just can't see how that one works out with the current problems the team has with the cap.



    Even worse than Harrison's contract is Woodley's....13.24 million cap hit this year and he is no where near the LB'er the 35 year old Harrison will be.
    That is exactly why we are in the cap mess we are in. We have done everything on earth to keep a defense together in a league that more and more is all about the offense.

    This is why I constantly harp about how we can no longer afford to have defensive player take a two year train up period. We need to have a defense they can step into and contribute right away because we may not be able to keep everyone we want to keep for their second contracts. The numbers just won't work and the system is unsustainable to get minimal production for two years out of a player when they are on three year contracts.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by thor75 View Post
    where's the rumor that they cut Colon and Hampton? Two that are more worthy of ending their Steeler careers. While typing this, Colon held down the caps lock and hampton ate the mouse. Oops, sorry.
    hahahahah

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Actually he is very much worth 5 mil a year. He is STILL our best OLBer, and only Timmons can compare to a 35 year old Harrison among ALL our LBers.

    When JH was out our defense was absolutely pathetic. With JH back we climbed back to number one.
    He had a sack in 5 of the last seven games. Had 11 tackles in the last game of the season.

    Woodley by comparison had around HALF the tackles that Harrison had.

    Harrison bested Woodleys CAREER HIGH for tackles in a season where he missed September and came back slowly in October.

    Aging Harrison had more total tackles (70) than ANY probowl OLBer in a season when he MISSED A MONTH.

    Clay Matthews, a probowler in his prime in full health in 16 games had 43 tackles compared to Harrisons 70.

    Aging injured JH is STILL the best run stopping 3/4 OLBER in this league bar none, and he closed the season with a sack in 5 of 7 games an elite pass rush level by any standard.

    Were it not for the fear of injury he would be ALL the money he is scheduled to make with no pay cut.

    Dude is worth more than 5 mil.....easy.

    You think we got guys on the bench who can replace that when PROWBOWLERS cant do what an aging JH does routinely.

    Again look at our defense at without JH. Remember what the stinkin RAIDERS looked like against us.

    THAT is what you have when JH aint playin.
    JH is not being paid 5 mil next year...He will be making over 10 mil. JH would have to agree to a paycut to play for 5 mil. Is he worth 5 mil for 1 year if it means losing your young talent? Absolutely not. That is based on his production too.

    You are going to boast tackles for a 3-4 OLB? His job is to get to the QB. Mathews had 13 sacks. That is why he is in the PB.

    JH was on the field for 6 of those 8 losses. He was on the field the last seven where the Steelers went 2-5. You say how horrible they looked against the Raiders...They gave up 34 points. Harrison was on the field at home when the gave up 34 to SD. THAT is what we got with JH playin. It isn't all on him by no means but he was not a difference maker. Woodley deserves alot of criticism too but he is much younger and has a workable contract. It is just business.

    He gave the Steelers 6 sacks over 13 games he started. That would be 7 if he played 16 as a 3-4 OLB. 86 tackles & 7 sacks for a 35 year old 10 million dollar man is not worth it in my eyes! The same stats for 5 mil isn't worth it either if I have to let young talent go. That is where the Steelers are at. If he was late 20's with those numbers..He had a down year but this conversation wouldn't be taking place. Cheaper Alternate that may get that production...Worilds only started 3 games and had a significant less snap count than JH & he put up 26 & 5. I'm not saying Worilds is JH or ever will be but...Neither is JH.

    We could argue all day about this issue. Bottom line is the Steelers went 8-8 holding on to aging vets. JH was one of many that didn't play up to par. He has regressed. Even 100% healthy...He isn't the same player. If you watched the games and he stood out...You were watching your DVR from years past. His production doesn't equal his contract and the Steelers can't afford to let talent walk out the door and over pay him. You believe he is...That is fine. If I'm the GM...The business side of the game tells me to say goodbye & Thanks. I could get his production at this point in his career out of Worilds & look for his replacment if I feel he isn't on the roster. I need to invest in the future of the Steelers...Not past icons.
    Last edited by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY; 01-04-2013 at 04:04 PM.

  7. #47
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    If I was to guess how it goes down...It would be this. Harrison would have to take the pay cut to remain a Steeler. If he doesn't, they will cut him. Playing at 5 mil would be the same as 5 mil dead space. It would be a wash but minus 1 roster spot. I would be ok with cutting him or keeping him if he takes a pay cut. My personal feeling is he isn't worth the 5 mil and roster spot but that isn't up to me.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    JH is not being paid 5 mil next year...He will be making over 10 mil. JH would have to agree to a paycut to play for 5 mil. Is he worth 5 mil for 1 year if it means losing your young talent? Absolutely not. That is based on his production too.

    You are going to boast tackles for a 3-4 OLB? His job is to get to the QB. Mathews had 13 sacks. That is why he is in the PB.

    JH was on the field for 6 of those 8 losses. He was on the field the last seven where the Steelers went 2-5. You say how horrible they looked against the Raiders...They gave up 34 points. Harrison was on the field at home when the gave up 34 to SD. THAT is what we got with JH playin. It isn't all on him by no means but he was not a difference maker. Woodley deserves alot of criticism too but he is much younger and has a workable contract. It is just business.

    He gave the Steelers 6 sacks over 13 games he started. That would be 7 if he played 16 as a 3-4 OLB. 86 tackles & 7 sacks for a 35 year old 10 million dollar man is not worth it in my eyes! The same stats for 5 mil isn't worth it either if I have to let young talent go. That is where the Steelers are at. If he was late 20's with those numbers..He had a down year but this conversation wouldn't be taking place. Cheaper Alternate that may get that production...Worilds only started 3 games and had a significant less snap count than JH & he put up 26 & 5. I'm not saying Worilds is JH or ever will be but...Neither is JH.

    We could argue all day about this issue. Bottom line is the Steelers went 8-8 holding on to aging vets. JH was one of many that didn't play up to par. He has regressed. Even 100% healthy...He isn't the same player. If you watched the games and he stood out...You were watching your DVR from years past. His production doesn't equal his contract and the Steelers can't afford to let talent walk out the door and over pay him. You believe he is...That is fine. If I'm the GM...The business side of the game tells me to say goodbye & Thanks. I could get his production at this point in his career out of Worilds & look for his replacment if I feel he isn't on the roster. I need to invest in the future of the Steelers...Not past icons.

    The OLB in the Steeler scheme has more responsibility than rushing the passer....However I will agree it is probably the main priority.

    The defense was not an issue in the majority of the losses you are referring to...

    He didnt play up to par because of injury...I would agree that it will be probably be difficult for him to regain his old form..but he still out performed Woodley.

    I also agree that he is not worth the cap number...but who do we have to replace him? Certainly not Worilds...

    Tough decisions and somehow we still need to increase QB pressure...

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch98 View Post
    I actually think he can AND if he can't he'll retire. IMO
    In the case of 99% of players, you trust your eyes. My eyes said that Harrison is a shell of himself, what with back and knee surgeries in back-to-back years (and at his age). My eyes also saw a guy who obviously failed to live up to his reputation as a pass-rusher. My eyes also watched him lumber around like a big tank, seeming to arrive a step late (where in other years, he arrived with a BANG). That all being said, he needs to go.

    HOWEVER... if any player has earned a "Chance Card" (i.e. monopoly), it's Harrison. If I were the coaching staff, I'd talk with him. I'd get a sense of where he thinks he's at. Normally, I would never listen to the player because they'll obviously think they have "one more year" in them. In Harrison's case, I think he's earned it. If he seemed hungry and out to prove himself, I'd keep him. Otherwise, I'd let him walk.

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