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Thread: Two reasons you don't take a ILB with a high pick in round 1:

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Spaghetti View Post

    lets say we draft another OG in the 1st round and by some miracle they all turn into the probowlers you seem to think we need at every position along the OL. What then when their contracts come up? Tie up 25 million dollars into three spots in the middle of the field in a league where everything is going to more spread formations?

    I'm not sure I see value in that.
    I get your point. But when no one sees value, that's when value really exists. If teams are built to stop spread formations, they all just might have trouble stopping the run between the tackles. Zigging when others Zag can give you a competitive advantage.

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    Would just like to see the Steelers take control of the LOS. It's been some time since we last saw 'dominance' along the lines, and it'd be nice to get back there. One thing Tomlin has had no trouble doing since being hired is adding 'skill' players throughout the draft- particularly in those middle rounds- Wallace, Brown, Sanders, Allen, Lewis, Dwyer, Rainey.

    Where he has yet to succeed is in giving these skill players the proper platform to succeed. That'd be the LOS. Last couple of years have added a DeCastro, Hood, Gilbert, Heyward, Adams & Pouncey. They are slowly (in some cases) working their way into the line-up. They'll be good, Chadman is pretty sure.

    But we still lack that dominant 'bull' at NT to replace Hampton (McLendon seems a decent player, but even in Hampton's down year, he hasn't been good enough to stand out & replace Hampton- so don't try to convince Chadman that he's the answer) & Willie Colon is starting to be salary cap prohibitive.

    Finish the job of re-stacking the Lines. Once they start dominating again, even the lesser skilled 'skill players' will start to be more consistant & successful, as the big hogs will make their job easier.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman View Post
    Once they start dominating again, even the lesser skilled 'skill players' will start to be more consistant & successful, as the big hogs will make their job easier.
    Even Big Ben.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRob View Post
    He's not going to slide anymore than Kuechly did. That doesn't mean we should be selecting an ILB that high. Just my personal opinion of course.
    I didn't think DeCastro would slide either, but since guards aren't highly valued anymore, he did.

    I like Jarvis Jones, Star Lotulelei, and Manti Te'o, but of those three, the elite level pass rusher and the immovable object inside are not likely to fall out of the top 5 (those guys you'd need to trade up to get, and unfortunately, we don't have the ammo to do so). The only one there that I could potentially see sliding like DeCastro did would be the inside backer, since that is an undervalued position in the new NFL just like guard. You can possibly get top 10 talents in the middle of the first round (or later) if they don't play a position of premium value. Just saying that if he slides, we should take Te'o. If Jones or Lotulelei slid, I'd jump all over them as well, but that has an infinitesimal chance of happening in my mind.

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    First off...I can't believe anyone thinks an OL will be the 1st pick. I'm baffled many are going there. Enough time spent on that.

    To the topic, you can't pull success stories and say "You don't have to because". Line up other positions and you can pull the same results.

    Here is the bottom line. You can't miss on the 1st. The higher up you pick the greater the urgency. You look for "Your guy" and cross you fingers. But if somone is there that you graded out much higher, you don't pass. This draft will be heavy early on defense. Argue...Say what you want...Throw out scenarios...There is no doubt.

    If Te'o is still there barring any type of disasterous combine, the Steelers may beat the anouncement of the pick before to the podium. If a guy like Moore falls...They will be writing on the card as they walk to the podium. There are so many other names that fit the bill but make no mistake...It will be a defensive player.

    Things the Steelers can control will be adressed before the draft. Everyone has already punched Wallace's ticket. Nobody thinks they will or can pay Lewis to keep him here. Mendy is already on the bus out of town. Very seldom the Steelers let young talent walk out the door. Do not be surprised with moves in the offseason that send fan favorites to the streets to keep young players who we already closed the door behind. What does an 8-8 or 7-9 season say to a team who had high goals? It answers financial questions about the vet core. It closes that chapter of many great players. The Steelers face the task of paying youthful talent versus holding on to highly paid accomplished vets at the end of their careers. They are at the fork in the road after 2011 & 2012 and the one direction says "Dead End". They stood looking at both paths for 2012. Prepare your jaw to drop over the next 6 months. It isn't going to be pretty but at the same time it will be sweet for the long term.



  6. #56
    Pro Bowler BigRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    First off...I can't believe anyone thinks an OL will be the 1st pick. I'm baffled many are going there. Enough time spent on that.

    To the topic, you can't pull success stories and say "You don't have to because". Line up other positions and you can pull the same results.

    Here is the bottom line. You can't miss on the 1st. The higher up you pick the greater the urgency. You look for "Your guy" and cross you fingers. But if somone is there that you graded out much higher, you don't pass. This draft will be heavy early on defense. Argue...Say what you want...Throw out scenarios...There is no doubt.

    If Te'o is still there barring any type of disasterous combine, the Steelers may beat the anouncement of the pick before to the podium. If a guy like Moore falls...They will be writing on the card as they walk to the podium. There are so many other names that fit the bill but make no mistake...It will be a defensive player.

    Things the Steelers can control will be adressed before the draft. Everyone has already punched Wallace's ticket. Nobody thinks they will or can pay Lewis to keep him here. Mendy is already on the bus out of town. Very seldom the Steelers let young talent walk out the door. Do not be surprised with moves in the offseason that send fan favorites to the streets to keep young players who we already closed the door behind. What does an 8-8 or 7-9 season say to a team who had high goals? It answers financial questions about the vet core. It closes that chapter of many great players. The Steelers face the task of paying youthful talent versus holding on to highly paid accomplished vets at the end of their careers. They are at the fork in the road after 2011 & 2012 and the one direction says "Dead End". They stood looking at both paths for 2012. Prepare your jaw to drop over the next 6 months. It isn't going to be pretty but at the same time it will be sweet for the long term.
    Good post. Gives us an opportunity to transition the conversation.

    All I am saying is if a Jarvis Jones, Dion Jordan, Damontrone Moore, or Hankins is available to us at pick 11, I take all of them before I take Te'o.

    Just my personal opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman View Post
    One LB that is interesting touch adman is Stanford's Chase Thomas- a smart LB that could be a useful 'switch' LB- either an ILB or OLB, depending on need. Right now, the Steelers don't know what they have in OLB Worilds or ILB Spence. Adding a guy like Thomas covers both spots.
    Only thing I see is that they could have more spots at ILB if Foote and B Johnson leave compared to just Harrison if he gets cut. There is no real depth behind Foote so I think you have to take a real ILB that has the ability to help early.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRob View Post
    Good post. Gives us an opportunity to transition the conversation.

    All I am saying is if a Jarvis Jones, Dion Jordan, Damontrone Moore, or Hankins is available to us at pick 11, I take all of them before I take Te'o.

    Just my personal opinion.
    We all have our reasons & players we like. I will take your above scenario. Keep in mind this is my preference sitting as a Steeler GM right now. I would only have Jones, Moore, & Te'o in the conversation as far as my grading. I would have Jordan & Hankins much lower. Here comes the "crazy" but this is my preference.

    My first choice would be Moore. He will be 20 on draft day and turn 21 in season. He has that "It" factor to be a difference maker. Will see the field game 1. My second choice would be Te'O. He will be 21 on draft day. I need to see him in position drills and look at his cone times & 10 yard split. He may jump ahead of Moore when it is all said & done. As a Steeler GM...I have them rated about the same & since a pass rusher trumps the ILB I go with Moore. Believe it or not, I have Jones as my third choice. Jones will turn 24 during the season. A bigger concern is his medical. His 2009 neck injury has me rating him lower. He was diahnosed with spinal stenosis. It was bad enough for USC not to clear him to play again and he transfered to Georgia who cleared him. Jones was a highly productive player at Georgia but his medical & age has him dropping on my board.



  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUST-PLAIN-NASTY View Post
    We all have our reasons & players we like. I will take your above scenario. Keep in mind this is my preference sitting as a Steeler GM right now. I would only have Jones, Moore, & Te'o in the conversation as far as my grading. I would have Jordan & Hankins much lower. Here comes the "crazy" but this is my preference.

    My first choice would be Moore. He will be 20 on draft day and turn 21 in season. He has that "It" factor to be a difference maker. Will see the field game 1. My second choice would be Te'O. He will be 21 on draft day. I need to see him in position drills and look at his cone times & 10 yard split. He may jump ahead of Moore when it is all said & done. As a Steeler GM...I have them rated about the same & since a pass rusher trumps the ILB I go with Moore. Believe it or not, I have Jones as my third choice. Jones will turn 24 during the season. A bigger concern is his medical. His 2009 neck injury has me rating him lower. He was diahnosed with spinal stenosis. It was bad enough for USC not to clear him to play again and he transfered to Georgia who cleared him. Jones was a highly productive player at Georgia but his medical & age has him dropping on my board.
    I agree Jones has medical issues that may drop him. However, I do not think we will be picking low enough to grab Te'o or Moore.

    Moore is going to benefit from the Von Miller effect. Te'o is getting all of the hype with Notre Dames' season. I don't think Te'o is that great of an athlete. I think that will show up in the game against Alabama. I know it is only one game, but it will be a good test for Te'o.

    However, I do think that Dion Jordan, Jarvis Jones (Medical Reasons), Jesse Williams, and Ezekiel Ansah will be available where we pick. Who do you take out of these players?

    I would take them in this order. Jones, Jordan, Williams, Ansah.
    Last edited by BigRob; 12-28-2012 at 02:41 PM.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Spaghetti View Post


    lets say we draft another OG in the 1st round and by some miracle they all turn into the probowlers you seem to think we need at every position along the OL. What then when their contracts come up? Tie up 25 million dollars into three spots in the middle of the field in a league where everything is going to more spread formations?

    I'm not sure I see value in that.
    You mean you don't see the value but isn't that exactly what we have done for years to make sweet LeBeau's LB grouping among the best in the league. Aren't we paying something like $25M per season for our four LBs? Something like $16M plus for our two "great" OLBs to get a grand total of 9 sacks? That's the problem. We have been willing to invest for years on the defense and go bargain baement on offense and then we want to blame the offense for all of our faults. We need a much better OL. This is an offense first league not a defense first league. Our great #1 ranking is worthless.

    You don't hesitate to criticize my views on players when you have just as much deeply rooted prejudices on your end of the spectrum. You look at any UDFA who makes the team and immediately create "folk hero" status about them like they should get a break just because they started out as a UDFA. Foster is a player on the OL we can do better than. He has to play against the same opposing talent whether he came to the team as a FA, UDFA or #1 pick. No matter what you say he isn't a dominant player and the standard for him isn't lower because he made it as an UDFA. He got ragdolled last week by Atkins and was driven back into the backfield repeatedly. Yes DeCastro did too but one was playing his second pro game and one was a three year vet and two year starter and the latter player is the one you want to make excuses for.

    We'll never agree on a lot but that doesn't make either one of us right or wrong.
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