Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 62

Thread: Tomlin vs Cowher

  1. #21
    Hall of Famer Jooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Somewhere On the Darkside...
    Posts
    3,838
    Cowher 2 SB appearances: 1 win, 1 loss. Tomlin: Same. The difference, Cowher built his teams himself and it took time to develop those teams... Tomlin, OTOH, inherited a very solid Cowher-built team as well as some damn good assistant coaches. The thing that disturbs me is the more control and influence I see Tomlin assert each season, the worse the team seems to perform. That bothers me more than reading any stat line. I sat down with my dad last Sunday to watch the only game we'd watched together all season and he looked at me before the game started and said it's probably going to be the same thing today: they play well enough to keep you interested and then find a way to lose it in the final minute. Wow, dad's not Nostradamus, but he nailed last Sunday's game for sure. I can't remember when the last time we came out and actually dominated another team and blew them out. Those performances are so rare these days. I suppose time will tell, but listening to Mike and Mike on Monday morning, they claimed a source inside the FO who says there is about to be a big house cleaning project in Pittsburgh this offseason. We'll see what happens.
    Last edited by Jooser; 12-26-2012 at 10:50 AM.

  2. #22
    I have been a Tomlin supporter...but the stats provided in the article are quite interesting...

    It is hard to argue the success that the Pats have had season after season....With lesser talent at the WR and RB positions....

  3. #23
    Pro Bowler Steelhere10's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    man from Sudan
    Posts
    1,693
    I'm sorry but Cowher inherited Noll team, so try that again!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
    Wish i could claim this...but sent to me by Dutch.

    "Well coached" teams don't beat themselves. They also force their opponents into mistakes of their own.


    Cowher's turnover differential since 1992


    1992 +11
    93 +11
    94 +14
    95 0
    96 +7
    97 +1
    98 -3
    99 +3
    00 +12
    01 +7
    02 0
    03 -3
    04 +11
    05 +7
    06 -8
    Cowher +70 (+44 first 6 years)

    Now lets take a look at Tomlin's heavily talented football team.


    Tomlin's turnover differential since 2007
    07 +3
    08 +4
    09 -3
    10 +17
    11 -13
    12 -14
    Tomlin -6

    Belichick's turnover differential since 2002
    02 +5
    03 +17
    04 +9
    05 -5
    06 +5
    07 +16
    08 +1
    09 +6
    10 +28
    11 +17
    12 +22
    Belichick +121 in turnover differential!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tomlin's team ranking in penalty yards per game!

    12 #25
    11 #22
    10 #25
    09 #16
    08 #29
    07 #7
    Average ranking in penalty yards per game under Tomlin = 20th worst


    Cowher's penalty yards per game
    06 #5
    05 #8
    04 #5
    ---------------------------------

    Tomlin's teams 82 more penalties since 2007 than Belichick's teams.
    These are great illustrations of the problems I have with Tomlin. You're absolutely right - Belichick's teams don't beat themselves and have an uncanny ability to force turnovers. If Belichick doesn't have premiere pass rushers, which he really hasn't had in NE, he figures out ways for his existing personnel to succeed. Tomlin doesn't do that. Cowher, by and large, did that. Players feared Cowher, players fear Belichick. With Tomlin, there seems to be a disconnect between what he says and what people do in response. He's too soft of a coach and the more time he's had as the head coach, the more obvious it is. If you are a premiere team in the NFL, you can't have a -6 turnover differential over a six year period. The Steelers are sleepwalking and Tomlin isn't the guy to make them stand up and take notice. He has to go.
    Last edited by JB13; 12-26-2012 at 11:03 AM.

  5. #25
    Hall of Famer fezziwig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,890
    I've always said this and I truly believe this when I say once more, " had Tomlin not taken over the team when he did, we wouldn't have made it or won our last Super Bowl. " Cowher would have stuck with his pets, made no improvements and probably by then, Cowher and Ben would have been at each other. Maybe not between Cowher and Ben but the first part I feel is real.

    I likeTomlin and he seems like someone I would be friends with or in other words, he reminds me of my choice or circle of friends that I have. I think he delegates too much or allows the assistant coaches to much lead and he needs to put his foot down more than he does. Does Tomlin even suggest any of the play calling ? I know Cowher would at times. Cowher did seem to make his players more accountable than Tomlin seems to but, who's to say Tomlin doesn't do it in a more private time ?

    Yep, the lack of turnovers and flags thrown are Tomlins big issues and that he hasn't made enough coaching changes or quick enough coaching changes. I'm not saying Cowher would or wouldn't have fired Arians sooner but, you can bet Cowher would impress upon Arians what he expected out of a Steelers offense. He wouldn't have allowed the buddy, buddy system affect the play calling that Arians and Ben had.


    Either Tomlin is more aggressive than Cowher or not as smart as Cowher with some of his play calling. With everything being said, if we have the turnovers going against us next season and the lack of disicpline with these players as it seems going on next season, Tomlin would have worn his welcome out with me. Oh yeah, if we lose the opener next season, I'll probably change my name to, " Fire Tomlin Now " That's another sign of a poorly coached or prepared team.

  6. #26
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,895
    Quote Originally Posted by fezziwig View Post
    I've always said this and I truly believe this when I say once more, " had Tomlin not taken over the team when he did, we wouldn't have made it or won our last Super Bowl. " Cowher would have stuck with his pets, made no improvements and probably by then, Cowher and Ben would have been at each other. Maybe not between Cowher and Ben but the first part I feel is real.

    I likeTomlin and he seems like someone I would be friends with or in other words, he reminds me of my choice or circle of friends that I have. I think he delegates too much or allows the assistant coaches to much lead and he needs to put his foot down more than he does. Does Tomlin even suggest any of the play calling ? I know Cowher would at times. Cowher did seem to make his players more accountable than Tomlin seems to but, who's to say Tomlin doesn't do it in a more private time ?

    Yep, the lack of turnovers and flags thrown are Tomlins big issues and that he hasn't made enough coaching changes or quick enough coaching changes. I'm not saying Cowher would or wouldn't have fired Arians sooner but, you can bet Cowher would impress upon Arians what he expected out of a Steelers offense. He wouldn't have allowed the buddy, buddy system affect the play calling that Arians and Ben had.


    Either Tomlin is more aggressive than Cowher or not as smart as Cowher with some of his play calling. With everything being said, if we have the turnovers going against us next season and the lack of disicpline with these players as it seems going on next season, Tomlin would have worn his welcome out with me. Oh yeah, if we lose the opener next season, I'll probably change my name to, " Fire Tomlin Now " That's another sign of a poorly coached or prepared team.
    Looking behind the numbers the answer becomes clear. The Cowher era was no more special taking care of the ball than the Tomlin era. In fact, Cowher's last season the Steelers were almost at the bottom of the pile in giveaways. What is interesting is that Cowher teams, for whatever reason, always had a ying and yang on giveaways/takeaways. In seasons where the team gave it away a ton, 2002 for example (28th), they were very good at takeaways. What was special about the 2002 defense? Porter, Gildon, K Bell, Farrior, A Smith, a young Hampton. The secondary? nothing special other than Lee Flowers.


    The Steelers needed the defense to be much more aggressive in going after the ball this season and it didn't happen. Bottomline, fix the lines and this team will be a consistent winner again.

  7. #27
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    13,295
    Quote Originally Posted by Jooser View Post
    Cowher 2 SB appearances: 1 win, 1 loss. Tomlin: Same. The difference, Cowher built his teams himself and it took time to develop those teams... Tomlin, OTOH, inherited a very solid Cowher-built team as well as some damn good assistant coaches. The thing that disturbs me is the more control and influence I see Tomlin assert each season, the worse the team seems to perform. That bothers me more than reading any stat line. I sat down with my dad last Sunday to watch the only game we'd watched together all season and he looked at me before the game started and said it's probably going to be the same thing today: they play well enough to keep you interested and then find a way to lose it in the final minute. Wow, dad's not Nostradamus, but he nailed last Sunday's game for sure. I can't remember when the last time we came out and actually dominated another team and blew them out. Those performances are so rare these days. I suppose time will tell, but listening to Mike and Mike on Monday morning, they claimed a source inside the FO who says there is about to be a big house cleaning project in Pittsburgh this offseason. We'll see what happens.
    Cowher inherited Noll's players which took him to his first Super Bowl and then took another decade to get back. Along the way he coached the team to 3 sub-.500 records.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  8. #28
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    13,295
    Quote Originally Posted by fezziwig View Post
    I've always said this and I truly believe this when I say once more, " had Tomlin not taken over the team when he did, we wouldn't have made it or won our last Super Bowl. " Cowher would have stuck with his pets, made no improvements and probably by then, Cowher and Ben would have been at each other. Maybe not between Cowher and Ben but the first part I feel is real.

    I likeTomlin and he seems like someone I would be friends with or in other words, he reminds me of my choice or circle of friends that I have. I think he delegates too much or allows the assistant coaches to much lead and he needs to put his foot down more than he does. Does Tomlin even suggest any of the play calling ? I know Cowher would at times. Cowher did seem to make his players more accountable than Tomlin seems to but, who's to say Tomlin doesn't do it in a more private time ?

    Yep, the lack of turnovers and flags thrown are Tomlins big issues and that he hasn't made enough coaching changes or quick enough coaching changes. I'm not saying Cowher would or wouldn't have fired Arians sooner but, you can bet Cowher would impress upon Arians what he expected out of a Steelers offense. He wouldn't have allowed the buddy, buddy system affect the play calling that Arians and Ben had.


    Either Tomlin is more aggressive than Cowher or not as smart as Cowher with some of his play calling. With everything being said, if we have the turnovers going against us next season and the lack of disicpline with these players as it seems going on next season, Tomlin would have worn his welcome out with me. Oh yeah, if we lose the opener next season, I'll probably change my name to, " Fire Tomlin Now " That's another sign of a poorly coached or prepared team.
    We have a 2-3 year trend of decreasing sacks and INTs that say we won't get the turnover thing going in our favor is we just run out the same defense again.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  9. #29
    Hall of Famer Mister Pittsburgh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    3,678
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelhere10 View Post
    I'm sorry but Cowher inherited Noll team, so try that again!
    Horrible, horrible comparison. Cowher didn't take over a Noll team in 1978. Cowher took over after a decade of losing/ mediocrity. Then through his drafting alongside Colbert he built a winner. Now that those draft picks are old or gone and Tomlin has to replace those players we are seeing some dreadful play.Tomlintook over a team with one shaky area, offensive line. We still have a shaky offensive line and more.

  10. #30
    Hall of Famer Jooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Somewhere On the Darkside...
    Posts
    3,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Pittsburgh View Post
    Horrible, horrible comparison. Cowher didn't take over a Noll team in 1978. Cowher took over after a decade of losing/ mediocrity. Then through his drafting alongside Colbert he built a winner. Now that those draft picks are old or gone and Tomlin has to replace those players we are seeing some dreadful play.Tomlintook over a team with one shaky area, offensive line. We still have a shaky offensive line and more.
    Exactly my point. We were in the depths of suckatude when Cowher took over Noll's players. He turned things around and sat us back upright.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •