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Thread: Cook: Turnovers, and lack thereof, the real issue

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    We need a dominant NT.

    And too his credit, James Harrison tries to get the ball every chance he gets. He even fights guys after he tackles them. I get a feeling he's ready to explode. If we could just get Troy and Ben to up their games, we might be ok.
    I'll sing the old song "We need the 4-3!"

    We don't have the players to successfully do the 3-4. You need dominant OLBs and we don't have them. Harrison tries hard but doesn't get to the QB anymore. Woodley has gotten fat and happy on his big contract and is a non-factor. Our pass rush is pathetic and on track for one of the worst sack totals in two decades. Same with Interceptions. This is a two to three year trend and it is time to wake up a recognize we need a major change not a cosmetic one or waiting two to three more years to get the players to "maybe" turn it around.
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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    I'll sing the old song "We need the 4-3!"

    We don't have the players to successfully do the 3-4. You need dominant OLBs and we don't have them. Harrison tries hard but doesn't get to the QB anymore. Woodley has gotten fat and happy on his big contract and is a non-factor. Our pass rush is pathetic and on track for one of the worst sack totals in two decades. Same with Interceptions. This is a two to three year trend and it is time to wake up a recognize we need a major change not a cosmetic one or waiting two to three more years to get the players to "maybe" turn it around.
    I fail to see how putting Woodley, Hood, Heyward and the rest in a 4-3 will make them anymore effective. The problem is not the scheme - it is the players.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Opponents "forced" 18 turnovers?

    About 1/4 of those were actually "forced"...the rest were just crappy, bonehead plays....
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelhere10 View Post
    Turnovers come when the Qb is under duress especially Romo, yet the a Steelers refuse to bring the house on this guy and sit back and bring a 4 man rush all game. That's why the team haven't forced any.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo
    Two weeks in a row against one of the worst OLs in the NFL and we can't touch the QB. Our pass rush makes them look like the Redskins' "Hogs" of the 80s. The inability to get real pressure on the QB renders this defense mediocre at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jooser
    Yes, and the inability for the OL to create a push for the running game, RB's fumbling, WR's dropping passes, and Ben throwing INTs renders this offense LESS than mediocre. The whole team is sick, starting with the coaching staff down.
    Quote Originally Posted by pfelix73
    We need to draft some potential play makers on defense...........
    Any one of these statements has a whole lot more truth than Cook's article.

    I think we also see how meaningless some statistics are. The Steelers (at least going into this last weekend) had the #1 defense in the NFL when going by yards allowed per game.
    But in today's NFL, unless you get some turnovers, you're really not the #1 defense. In fact, you might be mediocre. In today's NFL, with the rules favoring the offense, you can't count on stopping the opponent, so you'd better, at times, get the ball away from them (you need pressure and playmakers on D), and you'd better have an offense that can score some points when you get the ball. We don't, and that's why we're sitting at 7-7, on the outside looking in.
    Last edited by BradshawsHairdresser; 12-17-2012 at 12:02 PM.

  4. #14
    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelhere10 View Post
    Turnovers come when the Qb is under duress especially Romo, yet the a Steelers refuse to bring the house on this guy and sit back and bring a 4 man rush all game. That's why the team haven't forced any.
    I have to disagree a bit on that one. There were multiple times in the second half Romo was under immediate pressure due to a blitz, but had complete confidence to simply throw the ball (almost without looking) out to Bryant regardless of coverage, because he knew his guy could beat Lewis or Victorian (mostly Victorian). At one point on a 3rd and 4 Victorian was giving the WR on his side of the field a 12 yard cushion and Lewis was in press coverage.

    Of all the injuries (excluding Ben) Ike Taylor going down hurt the most. Our pass defense went from really good to really bad in the past 3 weeks. Hopefully, Lewis will be able to go this weekend; if he isn't, AJ Green might be able to get into the HOF after one game playing against Victorian.

    Romo was playing against practice squad corners yesterday. There were more than the one time described above where he clearly just threw it without looking knowing his guy was way better than any corner the Steelers had on the field.

    Pappy


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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by phillyesq View Post
    I fail to see how putting Woodley, Hood, Heyward and the rest in a 4-3 will make them anymore effective. The problem is not the scheme - it is the players.
    Because you change the responsibilities for some players in a 4-3...you could just as easily make changes to the current 3-4, but not in the middle of the season....

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Because you change the responsibilities for some players in a 4-3...you could just as easily make changes to the current 3-4, but not in the middle of the season....
    On third and long, regardless of base scheme, the responsibility is generally to pressure the QB. There are some exceptions -- with some QBs, you want to keep them in the pocket or whatever - but essentially, you want some pressure.

    The players are the problem with the pass rush more than the scheme.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Because you change the responsibilities for some players in a 4-3...you could just as easily make changes to the current 3-4, but not in the middle of the season....
    Exactly. You put Woodley at DE and let him just go after the QB versus chasing receivers and constantly pulling his hamstring. Hodd goes after the QB versus "occupying" offensive linemen. All your DL would get more one on one match ups versus getting double teamed.
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  8. #18
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    Plenty of great suggestions in here, and most lead toward the same theme- we need more plays on the Defense.

    It could be that Warren Sapp was on to something. Our 'big plays' guys of the last 5 years are no longer making regular big plays- Harrison used to dominate 'games', now he can dominate the occasional play, but nowhere near the level of disruption he used to cause. Polamalu is probably not diminishing as much as some think he is, but you have to be concerned that he seems dinged up so often. Also, strangely, the defense actually looked 'better' this season without Troy. Keisel no longer appears in the backfield as much as he used to. Hampton no longer commands the same level of blocking as he used to. Even Ike has been more prone to 'grabbing on' to WR's this year in order to not lose his coverage.

    These guys are getting old. They are losing a step, or two. And they can't be relied upon to dominate like they used to.

    There are a couple of promising players on the roster- Keenan Lewis, obviously, Cortez Allen, Cameron Heyward, Jason Worilds... they all look like they can contribute. Dominate? Maybe, maybe not. The 2 CB's look like good guys- solid, strong- might not be Darrell Revis, but they'll be starting quality. Heyward is physically right. It's way too early to write him off- he needs gametime. Worilds looks good in patches.

    If you were to ask Chadman how he'd go about revamping the Defense (excluding the shift to 4-3), it'd be as follows:

    1. NT. Hampton is slowing down (or stopped), McClendon has not surpassed him to any level worthy of considering 'dominant'. Ta'amu needs to 'superman' himself after his brain-explosion. There is no 'genuine' progression plan in place at NT, and this is the position that needs to soak up blockers to make the OLB's & DE's & ILB's most effective. While stats won't ever back up the importance of this position- we need a new Hampton here, fast. No surprise the lack of genuine pressure on the QB has gone hand-in-hand with Hampton's regression.

    2. Pass rushing OLB- while Chadman likes Worilds, unless he does something that makes us all think 'whoa', you can't just 'hope' he'll be a replacement for Harrison. While it's a real need, it could be that there is time to 'develop' one here so long as Worilds can step in as a starter for the short term.

    3. Safeties- we need them. When Mundy & Allen are the back-ups to the aging starters, you need an upgrade. Not only that- we need playmakers that can cover & take the ball away. While Clark has been great, he's older than Troy. And Troy can't take the beating he gets every year without it catching up. These 2 are above the line, now, but it wouldn't take much for both of them to decline, and rapidly, at about the same time.

    4. ILB- Foote isn't a long term answer & Sylvester hasn't come along like hoped. Spence, however, has 'playmaker' written all over him- so long as he comes back from his injury.

    There are some problems with this team, going forward. But there are pieces in place- Timmons, Woodley, Hood (even though he's hated here), Lewis, Allen.... that's a nucleus right there. And looking at that group- there are playmakers there.

    Get a few positions sorted, and this defense goes from 'good' to 'dominant'.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman View Post
    Plenty of great suggestions in here, and most lead toward the same theme- we need more plays on the Defense.
    this begs a much more important question:

    when is Schiavone going to race again?

  10. #20
    Pro Bowler Steelhere10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    I have to disagree a bit on that one. There were multiple times in the second half Romo was under immediate pressure due to a blitz, but had complete confidence to simply throw the ball (almost without looking) out to Bryant regardless of coverage, because he knew his guy could beat Lewis or Victorian (mostly Victorian). At one point on a 3rd and 4 Victorian was giving the WR on his side of the field a 12 yard cushion and Lewis was in press coverage.

    Of all the injuries (excluding Ben) Ike Taylor going down hurt the most. Our pass defense went from really good to really bad in the past 3 weeks. Hopefully, Lewis will be able to go this weekend; if he isn't, AJ Green might be able to get into the HOF after one game playing against Victorian.

    Romo was playing against practice squad corners yesterday. There were more than the one time described above where he clearly just threw it without looking knowing his guy was way better than any corner the Steelers had on the field.

    Pappy
    OK let me ask you this, do you consider a 4 man rush a blitz in a 3-4 defense, I guess you can say that but really 4 rushers against 5 OL is not a blitz to me. I saw plenty of times Romo just sit in the pocket with no pressure at all and pick the D apart. I know it's hard to do when you have backup cb playing but even when we had healthy cb it has been a theme for this defense the last couple of years and if you want coincidence as to why there have been less TO for the defense I think that would be why, If you hurry the QB mainly ones who don't like pressure including Romo I think the TO will come. Phill Simms brought up a good point when he said there are three things that DL wants and two was don't get beat deep and tackle. Well you will be high in the rankings if you don't get beat deap, but guess what you want have many To's.

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