Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 66

Thread: Cam Heyward

  1. #51
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    2,541
    I unfortunately didn't get a chance to watch the game (was at a party with no TV), but if Cam "made plays", I caution those who look at that as a sign of 3-4 success. You saw those same "plays" being made by Hood at the end of his rookie year. People cited that as an affirmation of his talent. But the reality is that plays a lot of plays that are made aren't really made. A lot of times guys just free up, and are just the beneficiary.

    e.g. Aldon Smith from the 49ers, MAKES PLAYS. If Cam was throwing fools around like that, then I would agree. But if Cam just happened to make a sack or tackle cuz he was in the right place... that's NOT necessarily "a play". Hood "made plays" back then, but I NEVER thought they were plays.

    Especially 3-4 DL. They don't really make plays. That's why Aaron Smith was so underrated. He never flashed. He just did his job. How we knew that he was so good, was by the strength of the overall defense--namely vs. the run. And we saw how good he was when he went down with injury (coincidentally Polamalu was out at the same time, but the "analysts" always used our struggles as an affirmation of Polamalu, but never Smith).

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman View Post
    Now, right off the bat, Chadman is going to point out that he has no stats to back any of what is about to be said
    I will provide stats that are contrary to nearly everything you just said

    the success of the Steelers 3-4 Defense is, primarily, dependant on the play of the DL. These guys set the tone, fill gaps & create space for the LB's to make plays. That in itself says that the stat lines for the DL for the Steelers are never going to give a great gauge as to how they are really playing.
    Not really. this is a fallacy that so called "knowledgeable" Steeler fans throw around. LBer play determines the quality of our D. Aaron Smith was our best DE because he was PRODUCTIVE not because he made LBers look good. Proof? In his prime Smith had several seasons with 60 plus total tackles (70 career high). None of his peers have done 60 tackles once. Keisel went to the probowl having 33 total tackles. Combine Keisels two highest sack totals and you get a number ( 8 ) that Smith did TWICE in single seasons.

    Interestingly our "best" DE did not line up next to our most productive LBers (which "should" be the case if the linemen make the LBers). Porter and then Harrison lined up on the OPPOSITE side than Smith in the base. If we credit the line for LBers success, Kimo (next to Porter) was a heck of a better player than Smith (who can take pride in the greatness of Clark Haggins).

    Team Stats however might show how effective the Steelers 3-4 DL is. After all, as a unit, we can see their success representeted by the success of those around them.
    Our best run defense in two decades was during a season when our best DE of the era missed most of the season. We lose our best DE of the era and Casey is clearly past his prime what happened? When our LBers talented are healthy and playing well, our defense is fine regardless of the dlinemen in front.

    Another thing to consider is this- if the DL is the tone-setter of the 3-4, the NT is the central cog to the DL success. Without good play from the NT, without dominant play from the NT, the DL is never going to be as effective as they could/should be. Don't think there is much doubt right now that Hampton isn't the same player he was 5 years ago. Neither Hood nor Keisel are dominant, in Chadman's opinion, this season. Is that reflected in Hampton's regression?
    Our run defense was fine when Hoke played in place of Casey. Our win percent is BETTER when he started than with Casey. When Mclendon played for an injured Casey last season we were fine, he is UNDEFEATED (3-0) as a starter.

    Comparing Heyward's value to Hood's is irrelevant. The Steelers need all the DE's to be effective, in whatever way they are asked to play. Hood is a little tank, while Heyward is an athletic beast. They are going to play differently. They will not garner the same results, individually. How different are the team stats with Hood in as compared to when Heyward is in? That is more the key indicator.
    Again "team stats" are misleading, and to credit the line with team stats is wrong. If so the best Dline we have ever had was Keisel, aging Casey and Hood, the starting 3 for the majority of the 2010 season when our run defense was at its best. We know that aint true.

    Fact is that we had Farrior and Harrison healthy, Timmons had his ONE breakout season, and Woodley had a typical year. The state of the LBers was GREAT, despite issues on the dline. for most of that season Troy was healthy too contibuting to the run defense as well.

    The fact that our Dline does not need great play is shown in that WE NEVER DRAFTED DEs HIGH UNDER BC. Now that we do it does not make our defense any better. Even Casey who was drafted high gets replaced by no-names with little effect.

    Interestingly this years defensing success is largely related to our improved secondary. Neither the line nor the banged up LBs are getting great pressure (sufficient perhaps not great), and we have the number one pass defense.
    Last edited by Captain Lemming; 11-22-2012 at 03:16 PM.

  3. #53
    Hall of Famer fezziwig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,880
    I thought we had the number one secondary/pass defense last year too ?

    Anyway, pretty smart talk Captain and it adds up pretty well. I give credit with our past success to James Harrison, Farrior and then add in some Aaron Smith that could do it better than anyone plus a not too shabby Kiesel ( well, except for the beard ). It all came together at its best when Harrison had his highlight seasons. Aaron Smith, Kiesel added a lot to that with being good at their position and Casey too when he was a bit better.
    Harrison made Woodley and the entire team better if you ask me. When was Timmons breakout season anyway ? I must have missed those three games.

    Our d-backs are doing well right now but eventually, that will not be enough if we make it to the playoffs. We need Harrison, Woodley to step it up and we need guys like Hampton, Kiesel, Hood, Heyward to allow Harrison and Woodley to do their job..... And all that means, it starts all over again with, who's not getting their job done.

  4. #54
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    13,280
    Quote Originally Posted by fezziwig View Post
    I thought we had the number one secondary/pass defense last year too ?

    Anyway, pretty smart talk Captain and it adds up pretty well. I give credit with our past success to James Harrison, Farrior and then add in some Aaron Smith that could do it better than anyone plus a not too shabby Kiesel ( well, except for the beard ). It all came together at its best when Harrison had his highlight seasons. Aaron Smith, Kiesel added a lot to that with being good at their position and Casey too when he was a bit better.
    Harrison made Woodley and the entire team better if you ask me. When was Timmons breakout season anyway ? I must have missed those three games.

    Our d-backs are doing well right now but eventually, that will not be enough if we make it to the playoffs. We need Harrison, Woodley to step it up and we need guys like Hampton, Kiesel, Hood, Heyward to allow Harrison and Woodley to do their job..... And all that means, it starts all over again with, who's not getting their job done.

    You should watch more games because Timmons is the only LB doing anything this year. He has been asked to do it all because Harrison and Woodley and their combined $16M+ salary have either been mediocre of on the sideline watching.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  5. #55
    larry foote plays linebacker and leads the team in tackles, so he must be doing something. I see that when I watch the games, the same as I see timmons playing well this season.

    I'm sure I will be accused of "stalking" for pointing out this inaccuracy, but the facts are the facts.

  6. #56
    Hall of Famer ikestops85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,192
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Spaghetti View Post
    larry foote plays linebacker and leads the team in tackles, so he must be doing something. I see that when I watch the games, the same as I see timmons playing well this season.

    I'm sure I will be accused of "stalking" for pointing out this inaccuracy, but the facts are the facts.
    You are correct Eddie. Foote has been a solid player this year for us. He gets crap because he isn't a star but he also doesn't get paid like a star.
    <a href=http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2011/02/roger-goodell.jpg target=_blank>http://seahawknationblog.com/files/2...er-goodell.jpg</a>

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo View Post
    You should watch more games because Timmons is the only LB doing anything this year. He has been asked to do it all because Harrison and Woodley and their combined $16M+ salary have either been mediocre of on the sideline watching.
    Last four games JH has more tackles than Timmons DESPITE injury AND playing outside LBer, rather than ILBer which SHOULD ALWAYS have more tackles.
    JH has not been getting many sacks but dont think for one moment he is a non-factor on the run game.
    Can you say Darrin McFadden? Thats what happens when Harrison sits out.

    What was our defense during the time he was out? This team was in the bottom half of the league, horrible.

    JH aint close to being his usual self. But dont think for one moment that he has no part is this defensive resurgence.

  8. #58
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Cincitucky (Stinktown, U.S.A.)
    Posts
    3,953
    Hood has had some very good games and even seasons in Pittsburgh. However, this season he has played poorly. This is very clear to anyone who watches line play. Should we cut Hood? No. Should we offer him a new contract in the offseason? No.
    Even if Bill Belichick was getting an atomic wedgie, his face would look exactly the same.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming View Post
    Last four games JH has more tackles than Timmons DESPITE injury AND playing outside LBer, rather than ILBer which SHOULD ALWAYS have more tackles.
    JH has not been getting many sacks but dont think for one moment he is a non-factor on the run game.
    Can you say Darrin McFadden? Thats what happens when Harrison sits out.

    What was our defense during the time he was out? This team was in the bottom half of the league, horrible.

    JH aint close to being his usual self. But dont think for one moment that he has no part is this defensive resurgence.

    $$$$$$$$$$

  10. #60
    Hall of Famer fezziwig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    2,880
    Yep, Timmons has shown up on ocassion this year and he had a nice pic six yesterday. He's still not worth the number one pick or his salary.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •