Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27

Thread: Salute to service

  1. #11
    Legend fordfixer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    State of confusion
    Posts
    7,682
    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post

    You could go to the other extreme and ask, don't we already honor the troops enough by paying them, giving them free housing, medical coverage, paying for their college, giving them job training, retirement benefits, etc. You could argue that socioeconomic issues play a bigger role in men and women choosing military service rather than this sense of duty we try to pretend is the case when we give thanks.
    We don't give them anything they earn it and the respect of the nation they serve.

    Molon labe

    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. George Orwell



    American metal pimped by asiansteel
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you 1. Jesus Christ, 2.The American G.I., One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

  2. #12
    Legend
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Inside Your Head
    Posts
    10,384
    Quote Originally Posted by fordfixer View Post
    We don't give them anything they earn it and the respect of the nation they serve.
    Kids sign up for the money/opportunity. It's a great option for those that want to better themselves but can't afford to go to college. If we gave them nothing, no one would sign up unless we went to a draft.

    In general, wealthy kids don't end up in the military. Their parents can afford to send them to college.

    The majority of the military kids come from the middle class. It's a good option for them to build skills, get money for college, get a job, and learn life skills. The middle class can't afford anything these days.

    I know a lot of guys that joined because it was their best option, not out of some sense of duty. Military recruiters are like Pimps. They over promise the world and take advantage of a lot of young kids.

    Then these young innocent kids come home from wars having gone through things no human should have to experience. And many of them are ruined for it. Why, often just because their parents weren't wealthy.

    The choices people get forced into making suck. From people sucked into the military to coal mines and any number of dangerous situations.

  3. #13
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,026
    Quote Originally Posted by fordfixer View Post
    We don't give them anything they earn it and the respect of the nation they serve.
    I'm not going to be forced to blindly think every person who "serves" deserves great adulation and hero worship. Most, yes. All? No way. Do the Marines who threw that puppy off a cliff deserver glory? Do the guys who slaughtered innocent women, children, old men in wheel chairs deserve to be viewed as heroes? Hell no. The reality is, many who serve are doing so because they had no better way than to make a living and joined purely for that reason, not because they are heroes who love their country. I pay homage to the "greatest generation" who fought in WWII, but virtually every other war after that were wars fought to empower and further richen the elite at the great expense to the people, including Americans. That isn't the troops' fault, but I don't have to pretend that the recent wars had ANYTHING to do with our freedom. They had NOTHING to do with it. NOTHING.
    Last edited by lloydroid; 11-11-2012 at 02:33 PM.

  4. #14
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,026
    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    Kids sign up for the money/opportunity. It's a great option for those that want to better themselves but can't afford to go to college. If we gave them nothing, no one would sign up unless we went to a draft.

    In general, wealthy kids don't end up in the military. Their parents can afford to send them to college.

    The majority of the military kids come from the middle class. It's a good option for them to build skills, get money for college, get a job, and learn life skills. The middle class can't afford anything these days.

    I know a lot of guys that joined because it was their best option, not out of some sense of duty. Military recruiters are like Pimps. They over promise the world and take advantage of a lot of young kids.

    Then these young innocent kids come home from wars having gone through things no human should have to experience. And many of them are ruined for it. Why, often just because their parents weren't wealthy.

    The choices people get forced into making suck. From people sucked into the military to coal mines and any number of dangerous situations.
    Well said. I love when people use their brain.

  5. #15
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,026
    Make you honor the troops?

    Now here we are as the invading aggressors?

    WTF are you talking about?
    Gee, I don't know. How about Iraq? They were no threat to us. The people there are worse off than they were with Saddam. They told us we had to invade there because they were a threat. That was a lie. We were told we should invade there because we would be delivering a better life to the people there. That was a complete lie. Before we invaded 20% lived in poverty. Today, 50% live in poverty. We have screwed that country and it's people over and those who so sought that war knew it all along. Afghanistan? WTF are we doing there? What good have we done? NONE.


    How dare you allow your ill-informed political views to stain the honor we pay to those who have served. We all have the right to question the motives and logic in sending our troops into harms' way, but what friggin' injust war are you talking about?
    I just told you and the new, unjust war is coming up in Iran. They pose no threat. They don't even have a nuke weapon program at all, and even if we did, who are we to say they aren't allowed to have one? We, of over 8,000 nukes are lecturing others about having nukes? We, who say we need to keep the region "balanced" but allowed/created Israel's 200 plus nukes? Is that what we call "balanced?" That's hardly balanced, it's the opposite.


    Iraq?

    As a former soldier, I also condemn the invasion of Iraq. We used the attack on our soil as a cover for nefarious political agendas. There is no getting around that fact, but it was 9 friggin' years ago when that travesty was imposed on our military. Why would any honorable person bring that up?
    Why wouldn't any thinking person bring it up? The people are still suffering mightily today, both Iraqis and Americans. If you don't remember history you are failed to repeat it. What? You think the appropriate thing would be to forget that the immoral war that killed 1 million - mostly innocent - people? That's how you think we should live? What is wrong with you. Do you have the ability to form logical thought?

    Afghanistan?

    A just deployment of our military forces if there ever was one. Bin Laden was harbored there and it was a breeding ground for those who would wage Jihad against us and the West.
    If you choose to believe those fairly tales, be my guest, but you are living a lie. If that is OK with you, then go with it. I choose to actually form independent thought.
    Regardless of these campaigns or any other military action you may be referring to, the political decisions of our elected leaders bear no consequence on the tribute we pay to those who have served.
    I already explained that.

    I get that this is not a Steelers or NFL-related topic of discussion, but I felt compelled to respond here in an attempt to get you to reconsider your stance on this topic. Stand at attention, take your hat off and honor those who have put their life on the line to give you the life you have.
    I will honor those who deserve it, but not everyone in the military qualifies. Unless you think we should pay homage to those who machine gun down little girls and old men in wheel chairs, or Marines who throw puppies of a cliff.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by lloydroid View Post
    I will honor those who deserve it, but not everyone in the military qualifies. Unless you think we should pay homage to those who machine gun down little girls and old men in wheel chairs, or Marines who throw puppies of a cliff.
    I see. Allow the exceptions to take something deserved away from the millions who serve with honor...

    The vast, vast majority of troops serve our country honorably...for whatever their reasons for enlisting might be, that does not take anything away from the fact that they perform those duties...

    Whether a war is determined by you to be unjust or not, that does not take anything away from the fact that they perform those duties...

  7. #17
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    I see. Allow the exceptions to take something deserved away from the millions who serve with honor...

    The vast, vast majority of troops serve our country honorably...for whatever their reasons for enlisting might be, that does not take anything away from the fact that they perform those duties...

    Whether a war is determined by you to be unjust or not, that does not take anything away from the fact that they perform those duties...
    There is that "serve" word; that is generally not even true. Most join for $ and opportunities to better their lives - which is a good thing - but let's not pretend that every person signs up to "serve their country" as the main motive. That just isn't true. The establishment pushes this message so as to get more people to sign up to kill others. If we make it full of glory, more will sign up. How many would sign up without giving them the benefits we do? How many? And yet we have it pounded in our heads that everyone in the military is "serving the country." It would be more accurate if we truly described who they were serving: mega bankers and corporations. That is who benefits from these wars, not the people of any of the countries involved. Tell me: How have the American PEOPLE benefit from the Iraq war? How have the Iraqi PEOPLE benefited from it? Nada. Oh but the bankers making up the Federal Reserve, and their bedfellows, have benefited greatly. I wonder who made sure the war happened in the first place? Gee, I wonder who pulled those strings? HMmm, maybe the people who greatly prospered from it? Just guessing.

  8. #18
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,026
    Yea, you want to know how the world really works? Who are these wars created by and benefit? Learn about this dude. Don't be so naive.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CofEbxtIxI

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lloydroid View Post
    Yea, you want to know how the world really works? Who are these wars created by and benefit? Learn about this dude. Don't be so naive.
    I'm not naive, dude...

    The point isn't about who you think "pulls the strings"...

    The point is to honor the people who actually perfrom their duties...

    There is that "serve" word; that is generally not even true.
    Who are you to determine this?

  10. #20
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Woooooo!
    Posts
    1,277
    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    In general, wealthy kids don't end up in the military. Their parents can afford to send them to college.

    The majority of the military kids come from the middle class. It's a good option for them to build skills, get money for college, get a job, and learn life skills. The middle class can't afford anything these days.

    I know a lot of guys that joined because it was their best option, not out of some sense of duty. Military recruiters are like Pimps. They over promise the world and take advantage of a lot of young kids.

    Then these young innocent kids come home from wars having gone through things no human should have to experience. And many of them are ruined for it. Why, often just because their parents weren't wealthy.

    The choices people get forced into making suck. From people sucked into the military to coal mines and any number of dangerous situations.
    I'm not saying you're wrong - but all I can tell you is: my father is a small business owner that was very successful. I wouldn't call him rich as we think of it today - but in our small town his income was in the top 1%. I didn't pay for college. I joined the Air Force because I was looking for a challenge and as a child of the 80's I had a strong sense of patriotism that began with Reagan in 1980. I was literally excited the day I turned 18 and went to the post office to fill out my selective service card. Of all the men and women I served with, I can't recall a single instance of any of them saying they were in the air force because they had no choice. They were all there because they wanted to be there. Now, I also recognize as a flight crew we were probably composed of individuals that had perspectives that may not have been common. I agree the airman who was tasked with emptying the $hitter may not have had the same level of appreciation as officers like myself, or my professional NCO's who served as flight engineers and loadmasters. I wasn't recruited into the air force. I sought it out. I wasn't promised anything except an opportunity to be put in situations that would challenge me and create life long memories. I can't or won't speak for the other services, but this is not the era of vietnam. There is no draft. The men and women I served with were proud, not reluctant volunteers. The men and women I served with did not join because it was their only option - for many it was simply a GREAT option.

    are there men and women serving because they come from poverty and have/had no choice? I'm sure. My experience however is those are rare cases and as I said above, I can't recall a single instance over my entire career where someone admitted such circumstances as their reason for signing up.

    of course, I was in the air force.

    maybe you were talking about the army.........

    (sorry, couldn't resist).

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •