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Thread: Ben was Huge for 3 Quarters

  1. #221

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    Hawaiin Steel- One whom engages in hyperbole. Hey that stud is TWENTY THIRD in the league in passing. Not impressed. See strides BUT not impressed.


  2. #222

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    Big Ben rescues Steelers again; with defense banged up, he'll have to continue

    By Clark Judge | Senior NFL Columnist
    Oct. 7, 2012

    Ben Roethlisberger gets a playmaker back on offense with the return of RB Rashard Mendenhall. (US Presswire)

    PITTSBURGH -- If you're the Pittsburgh Steelers, this is what you like about your latest victory: Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is still Ben Roethlisberger, rescuing the club with another fourth-quarter comeback, just as he has so many times before.

    But if you're the Steelers, this is what should concern you: Not only did your defense blow another fourth-quarter lead; it just subtracted two of its key playmakers.

    Linebacker LaMarr Woodley is sidelined because of a hamstring injury. Troy Polamalu aggravated a calf injury that kept him out of the previous two games. And while coach Mike Tomlin wouldn't speculate, it's hard to imagine either playing in Thursday's game at Tennessee.

    No wonder Tomlin said he was "thankful" for the come-from-behind 16-14 defeat of the Philadelphia Eagles, a club with a habit this season of overcoming opponents in the fourth quarter. But not this time and not against this team because ... well, because there's only one Ben Roethlisberger, and few quarterbacks make as many big plays in big games as Big Ben.

    Down by one point, with just over six minutes left, Roethlisberger drove the Steelers nearly the length of the field -- completing 4 of 5 passes and converting two key third downs -- to set up Shaun Suisham for the winning field goal.

    While Suisham will be hailed as the hero, the difference for Pittsburgh -- again -- was Roethlisberger. He played his best when his team needed it most, and stop me if you've heard this before.

    "I think all of the guys you can make an argument for being franchise quarterbacks -- that's the common tie that binds them," Tomlin said. "They come in different forms, shapes and sizes and skill sets if you will -- some of them are pocket passers; some of them are mobile -- but the reality is that if they're in that discussion it's because they deliver when it's time to deliver. No question, I don't care whom you're talking to, he's in the discussion."

    He doesn't have to convince me. I've seen the guy deliver winning throws or lead winning drives too many times. In fact, if I had one game to win, Roethlisberger is one of the two or three quarterbacks I would choose -- with New England's Tom Brady another. The guy simply excels when he must.

    And on Sunday he had to.

    For three-and-a-half quarters he and his teammates struggled to get their act together, with receivers dropping five passes and Jerricho Cotchery tripping over the hash at the 4-yard line when he appeared headed for a certain touchdown shortly before halftime.

    In the end, though, it didn't matter because Pittsburgh won, and Philadelphia didn't, and while the Steelers can tell themselves -- as wide receiver Antonio Brown did -- that "we left a lot of plays out there," they still prevailed.

    And they prevailed because of their quarterback, who just produced his 25th winning drive in a fourth quarter or overtime and beat an NFC opponent at Heinz Field for the 14th time in 15 tries.

    "I like to have the ball in my hands," Roethlisberger said, "and as an offense we want to control it."

    That's one way of putting it. But wide receiver Emanuel Sanders, who made a critical third-down catch on the last series, had another.

    "We all knew we had a job to do," he said. "We knew the team had to be put on our backs at that time, and we knew we were going to seize the moment. But that's what this game is about. It's all about those moments.

    "We were sitting here at 1-2 [now 2-2], and the moment was out. It was our time to go down and drive. Everyone wants to be the guy to make that play to win the game, and everybody contributed."

    He has that right. He made a third-down catch. So did Brown. Rashard Mendenhall, appearing for the first time this season, had four runs on the final possession. Isaac Redman had four more. Then, of course, there was Roethlisberger.

    "We just need to play like the Pittsburgh Steelers," he said of that final drive. "We figured it's now or never."

    Well, he played like he always does, and so did his teammates on offense. But it's that Pittsburgh defense that bears watching. Pittsburgh is always in the mix for the AFC North championship, but it's there because of Roethlisberger and its defense -- and it's that defense that allowed Philadelphia to drive 79 yards and convert two fourth downs on a touchdown drive midway through the fourth quarter.

    Of course, it's also that defense that rescued the Steelers in the first half, forcing two Michael Vick fumbles -- including one on at the goal line ... on first down, no less ... that short-circuited a sure score.

    But that defense just lost two starters, and while Tomlin declined to elaborate on the extent of injuries to Woodley and Polamalu, you might want to remember that it was a sore hamstring that sidelined Woodley most of the second half of 2011.

    So stay tuned, people. It's a long season, and while Roethlisberger hasn't changed, the Steelers' defense has.


  3. #223

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    You can post as many articles as you like. I have posted his stats vs a GOOD defense and what happened? The trend continues. O TD passes. Do you see what Arians and Luck are doing? They are SCORING. We are still a below average offense that still doesnt score. I thought the problem was Arains? As I told you, nope. Its Ben

  4. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by stopplayn View Post
    You can post as many articles as you like. I have posted his stats vs a GOOD defense and what happened? The trend continues. O TD passes. Do you see what Arians and Luck are doing? They are SCORING. We are still a below average offense that still doesnt score. I thought the problem was Arains? As I told you, nope. Its Ben
    Oooooo...passer rating...

    So, Vick had a better game yesterday because he posted a 104 passer rating?

  5. #225

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    Passer rating? Perhaps you are confused. Vick is a BUM. We should have blown them out. The defense gave us 3 turnovers and a good return from Rainey and we score 16?

    Meanwhile Arians is in Indy SCORING with a rookie. I thought Arians was terrible??????

  6. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by stopplayn View Post
    Passer rating? Perhaps you are confused. Vick is a BUM. We should have blown them out. The defense gave us 3 turnovers and a good return from Rainey and we score 16?

    Meanwhile Arians is in Indy SCORING with a rookie. I thought Arians was terrible??????
    Just not as terrible as the Green Bay defense...against whom Ben had a 500 yard passing day...

  7. #227

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    He did. He did that in 09, whithout THREE starting Dbs. Arians was so bad. No line issues in Indy, No Redzone issues. Yet we STILL have both issues. Hmmmm

  8. #228
    Pro Bowler

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    So many things little time...

    You post that a "guy is not covered, it results in a immediate sack" THIS makes my point. A smart qb would shift his line to make up for that extra man or send heath in motion to block him. This is called a SIGHT ADJUSTMENT. Ben is VERY vanilla in this regard. The PROOF that Ben isnt what you guys WANT in a Qb (but you're scared to admit it). You ALL say "I hope Haley can help Ben". Do Pats fans HOPE a OC can help Brady? Did Colts fans HOPE an OC could help Peyton? Denver?. Do you see it now? Of course not.
    I appreciate Eniparadoxgma taking the time but I got lost in the pool of EXCUSES. THE LINE, ARIANS, THE FOOT, THE SHOULDER, THE LIGHTING, THE SOIL, NFL NETWORK ......
    THAT's what you get out of my post? THAT? You hand pick one instance where I said it looked like someone was open and Ben didn't get it to him and all of a sudden "OMG BEN IS SO PEDESTRIAN HE OBVIOUSLY CAN'T MAKE READS OR ADJUSTMENTS AT THE LINE". This is a bunch of crap and here's why: You were originally saying that Ben's problem was taking sacks because he tries to roll out of the pocket too early. You cited this SPECIFIC Browns game as an example. Well, being as I checked the game out and went through each sack AND could find NO instance of Ben being sacked because he "rolled out of the pocket early" I would appreciate you just going ahead and admitting you were wrong. It's okay. Everyone's wrong every now and then. You really don't have to move the goalposts to now trying to argue that Ben can't make SIGHT ADJUSTMENTS at the line lol. As a matter of fact, I can't determine whether it's pathetic or comical the way you try to weasel out of everything you're called on. For now I'm going to go with comical.

    You list O line stats. I told you the O line looks BAD because of Bens style. Ben even admits this. Ben knows his shortcomings. Again. when they speak of cerebral qbs. WHY dont they mention Ben? Why not?
    The O line "looks BAD because of Bens style"? Really? That's what you want to go with here? We had the 2nd to last O-Line in the entire NFL in 2009 because of Ben? Did you even look at the stats for the line at either of those links? Regardless, I'm going to just say that no. It's not Ben's fault our line has sucked for awhile now. I have already admitted that yes, some sacks are on him. No one has argued against that. However, to say that our O-Line being one of the worst in the NFL for multiple years because of our QB is so far off the mark that I'm not even going to bother arguing with you any more about it. OUR O-LINE WAS AWESOME IN 2008 and 2009! lolol

    Cerebral quarterback? I'm not sure what your point is. Is someone arguing that Ben is considered a cerebral quarterback? Where do you even get this stuff from? Ben's a tough mofo and one hell of a quarterback. strawman2.jpeg

    Stats from handpicked games in 2009
    What, exactly, is your argument? That Ben plays better against bad defenses than good? Is that really what you're trying to say? I would like you to post multiple year stats from other QBs and show me where ANY QB plays better against the better defenses than the bad. Until then I have no idea what your point is. "OMG BEN DOESN'T DO AS WELL AGAINST GOOD DEFENSES AS HE DOES AGAINST BAD ONES". What a shocker. It's actually kind of logical. There's a reason good defenses are considered good and bad ones bad. Again, restate your argument in a way that it makes some semblance of sense, please.

    There you have it Ben Roethlisberger makes a living feasting off of bad defenses. Put him up against an elite one and he is not so elite as I have ALWAYS said. He wins BECAUSE OF HIS DEFENSE and because he is on the Steelers. Do explain all of this HARCORE proof as to his pedestrian or pathetic stats vs. a good defense. I didn't just list random numbers, I listed teams and years so you could CALL MY BLUFF. I dont just take ONE SEASON (BENS STATISTICAL BEST) or ONE GAME. I take his whole career and BURY YOU WITH THE TRUTH.
    First, playing better against bad defenses than good defenses does NOT mean "He wins because of his defense", so I'm not sure why you're trying to present it as having logical consistency. There are a multitude of factors involved with why teams win and lose, and for you to draw such an arbitrary relation between those two things is rather telling IMO.

    For the rest of the above paragraph, I'm not even sure if you know what you're arguing for or against anymore. What are you trying to prove? Again, you stated that the majority of the sacks taken in that SPECIFIC Browns game were because "Ben tries to get out of the pocket too quick" etc etc. I acquired a copy of the game, watched the game, and wrote down what I saw...even with pictures and a video. At no point in that game did Ben take a sack because of "trying to get out of the pocket" and I challenge you to provide any proof to the contrary.

    So, what do you want your long posts with handpicked stats from handpicked games to prove?

    Bury me (or whoever that post is directed at) with "THE TRUTH"? Now that IS comical.
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  9. #229
    Pro Bowler

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    Why would I address ONE GAME? I chronicled NINE YEARS of games. You're impressed by a breakdown of ONE game vs OVER 100?? LOL
    Seriously? Because if you don't actually watch the games you don't know WHY certain things happen. You can read your box scores all you want but you won't know if a sack happened because of coverage, you won't know if a fumble was caused by a bad hand off or an amazing defensive play, you won't know...well, hopefully you get the idea. Stats cannot provide context.

    Why dont you take your pom poms over to Eni's and help come up with an adequate EXCUSE for these mediocre stats. And we pay Ben Roethlisberger 100 Million and the guy has thrown for 30 TD passes ONCE in his career. When the defense falters can we lean on our Qb? See 2009.
    Everyone's welcome to come on over. Only thing is you have to check your monomanic agendas at the door before you can come obviously you can't come. You're worried about the number of TD passes and I'm worried about the amount of wins...especially of the SuperBowl variety. But I guess we each have our priorities lol.

    Then you DIDNT read my posts. I BROKE DOWN games from 04-09. Gave links for the last TWO years. Youre wrong again. Its OBVIOUS I looked at the GAMES.

    Eni ADMITTED he hadnt seen the game, so he broke down HIGHLIGHTS. I sir, watched the games as you can tell by my comments after those games. YOU had to tell him what game I was talking about (Remember he stated "I cant find a thurs night game vs the Browns on NFL Network). You told him it was in 09. Now DID HE WATCH THE TAPE? As I said WHY cant you address those anemic stats for NINE YEARS?

    Again, wrong wrong and wrong again. I didn't break down highlights. I got a copy of the game and watched it. I rewound and rewatched every single one of those sacks. I asked which game it was because I was LOOKING FOR A COPY OF IT. I then FOUND A COPY OF IT. Again, I watched the game just a few days ago. Did you? Have you found anything to contradict ANYTHING I stated in my breakdown of that game? Don't worry. I'll wait.

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  10. #230

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    I posted NINE YEARS of solid proof for you. We saw the same thing again yesterday. I never said "Ben rolls out of the pocket". I said BEN LEAVES THE POCKET PREMATURELY. I have never seen a quarterback manipulate the pocket like Manning or Kurt Warner. When the pocket gets muddy (filled with bodies), they hang in the pocket till the last second. Do you notice how HALEY is making Ben STAY in the pocket? Do you notice what the result is? LESS SACKS. The reason BEn is so efficient is SCHEME. Haley has him making 3 step drops and getting the ball out. This usually means throwing to your 1st read. Any line is at their best when they know where the qb will be. If Ben stays in the pocket it is a joy to block for him. But when he is running around undisciplined, its hectic to block for him. Ben admits its HIS STYLE.

    Secondly as for your analysis from HIGHLIGHTS is comical. For you to tell whos fault a sack is you would have to know 1. The play 2. What line adjustment Ben called at the line. Lets say Ben thinks the blitz is coming from the left and he makes his line adjustment to the left. Now what if the blitz comes from the right? This will throw the whole blocking scheme off and will result is a sack due to the quarterback making the wrong pre snap read. The described situation would put the sack on the qb and not the line. The line does what the quarterback tells it to do (Line adjustment).

    Thats one of the reasons why Peyton Manning isnt sacked often. Its NOT his line. Its his Mind. Indsy line sucked in his absence. Who was missing? Peyton Manning was. To be successful at the line then you have to do your work in the film room. So excuse me if I disregarded your "breakdown" of highlights.


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