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Thread: Ben was Huge for 3 Quarters

  1. #181
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    Pro Bowler eniparadoxgma's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I had fun doing it.
    <a href=http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=6892&dateline=1331316420 target=_blank>http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums...ine=1331316420</a>

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    Quote Originally Posted by eniparadoxgma View Post
    Thanks guys. I had fun doing it.
    I know how long that had to take but wow, great job!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    ****owned

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    end of thread, no more discussion necessary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    Do you hear that?

    That is the sound of goalposts moving...
    Hear that? Thats the sound of someone hating a sound intelligent football answer

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    if ben put up 17 points in a Sb against a very average defense, you would say he didnt do enough

    just like you say about the arizona game. "he wouldnt have needed that last drive if the offense did something earlier in the 4th quarter"
    IF you think Ben was MVP (Elite) in that game then thats you. I dont. I saw MISSED opportunity after missed opportunity. Ben had a 20-7 lead (Defense). The game should have been a blowout.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER View Post
    and you are wrong.

    i remember that play from years back. 5 OL heath and the RB. eagles drop in a zone blitz and only send 4 and get on ben immediately

    edit..2 mins in clear as day. stop making chit up
    PRESENT YOUR PROOF IF YOU'RE TRUTHFUL. Your word is NOT proof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eniparadoxgma View Post
    There's apparently a five attachment limit so here's the pic I was going to use to show the AWESOME PASS RUSH of the Browns which resulted in the fifth sack in that 2009 Browns game:

    Attachment 674

    Pathetic.
    You post that a "guy is not covered, it results in a immediate sack" THIS makes my point. A smart qb would shift his line to make up for that extra man or send heath in motion to block him. This is called a SIGHT ADJUSTMENT. Ben is VERY vanilla in this regard. The PROOF that Ben isnt what you guys WANT in a Qb (but you're scared to admit it). You ALL say "I hope Haley can help Ben". Do Pats fans HOPE a OC can help Brady? Did Colts fans HOPE an OC could help Peyton? Denver?. Do you see it now? Of course not.
    I appreciate Eniparadoxgma taking the time but I got lost in the pool of EXCUSES. THE LINE, ARIANS, THE FOOT, THE SHOULDER, THE LIGHTING, THE SOIL, NFL NETWORK ......

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    Quote Originally Posted by eniparadoxgma View Post
    As I said previously, yes. The. line. was. bad. I was wrong about our center. Instead of Okobi or Mahan, it was Hartwig. Not a big difference.

    Here are the stats for the 2009 Offensive Line:


    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...true&Submit=Go


    As you can see, we ranked 16th in the AFC (last place) and 31st out of 32 in the entire NFL.


    More Steelers 2009 O-Line stats:


    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/02...ve-line-stats/

    Can we move on?

    __________________________________________________ ___________________________



    So, anyways, I got a hold of that 2009 Steelers/Browns game (12-10-2009) and watched it. Here's my take on the 8 sacks in that game:

    2009 Steelers vs Browns 12-10 recap:

    http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=291210005



    1st sack: 10:57 in the 1st quarter, we have 3rd and 1 on our 24 yard line, Ben is in shotgun. Hartwig gets beat like a drum by Corey Williams, Moore (or Mendy) doesn't even slow him down a bit, everyone is covered downfield, and Ben takes a sack. He didn't try to get out of the pocket at all. He didn't have the time.


    2nd sack: 5:39 left in the 1st quarter, we have another 3rd down, this time at our 9 yard line, Poteat comes in unblocked and sacks Ben before he can do anything. The protection was screwed up on this play, as they let the defender come in untouched. Whoever called the protection is to blame, whether it was Arians or Ben. Again, Ben didn't "leave the pocket early" or try to extend the play. He was sacked pretty much immediately after the snap.


    3rd sack: 1st play of the 2nd quarter. We're at their 41. It's another 3rd down and 7 and we go shotgun again. Marcus Bernard comes in unblocked and gets Ben immediately. There is no time for him to roll out of the pocket or do anything. Looking at the play, Bernard had no one line up across from him at the line and it looks to me that Colon just blew his assignment. Instead of blocking Bernard (on his right) he gives help to the left where it doesn't seem needed. Maybe Heath was supposed to stay in and block? Either way Bernard is given a free shot and he takes down Ben immediately.


    Here's where they are pre-snap:

    Attachment 669


    Notice no one lined up across the line from Bernard. Colon is to the left. Heath is on the right but farther away.


    Here's where everyone goes:

    Attachment 670


    Colon turns left and Heath goes out. The result is an immediate sack.


    4th sack: 5:32 left in the 2nd quarter, we're at our 40 with a 2nd and 12. From what I can tell it seems like a combination of two things: Instead of hitting Heath when he can, Ben looks like he's staring Hines down (who doesn't get his head turned around) AND Hartwig lets Corey Williams get around him by choosing to help Colon instead. I guess you could say this one is also on Essex as he initially gets a push on Williams and then releases to block someone else on the left which allows Williams to come in on Ben.


    Here's the line pre-snap:

    Attachment 671






    Here I've highlighted both Hartwig and Corey Williams:

    Attachment 672




    Here you can see Essex initially blocking Williams and Hartwig looking for someone to block. On the right side you can see both Ward (I think it's Ward) and Heath going out.


    Here's right before the sack:

    Attachment 673


    Looks to me like Ben is staring at Hines' back, who doesn't get his head around. However, Heath is in a perfect position to make a catch and in my opinion Ben should hit him. But, from Ben's perspective it looks like the line has the D blocked so my assumption is that he was trying to make a bigger play. You can also see where Essex turned to the left to block someone and Hartwig turns right to help Colon, which frees up the lane for Williams to come in on Ben. I see this sack on both the O-Line and Ben, as Ben had a chance to get the ball to Heath, but the line plays like a comedy of errors. "Which way did he go, George? Which way did he go?"


    5th sack: The very next play we have a 3rd and 19 from our 33. Shotgun. This one is particularly sad. The Browns only rush 3 and drop everyone else into coverage. What happens here is that Bernard puts a move on Colon and blows right by him. Ben is sacked...again immediately. This is most definitely not on Ben. Colon gets abused and hits the ground in frustration at his own ineptitude.


    6th sack: 6:09 left in the 3rd quarter. We're at our 31. 3rd and 7, in the shotgun...(anything starting to sound familiar? 3rd down...shotgun...sack). Browns lay off but beat us with four. Bowens puts a stutter step on Kemo and then gets around him without being touched. Goes straight in on Ben. Both Heath and Moore stayed in on either side of Ben initially and then when it looked like the line was holding they took off. It was then that Bowens came in and got Ben. I don't see how this one was on Ben either. If our line can't hold against a four man rush when we leave both Heath and Moore in to help, then we're screwed. The commentators keep talking about how good the Browns' coverage is and that Ben has nowhere to throw the ball. From what I see, it looks like they're getting away with a lot of contact past 5 yards. Oh well. Maybe Ben could have thrown it away but I think Heath and Moore need to get their heads around faster.


    7th sack: :58 left in the 3rd quarter. 2nd and 5, we're in the shotgun at the Browns' 23 yard line. Browns go man under/2 deep (according to the commentators lol) and have all of our receivers covered. Ben tucks the ball, tries to run, and gets dropped a yard shy of the line of scrimmage. Looks like the line had the Browns blocked initially but are out of position because Ben tries to run. Earlier Ben faced this coverage and was able to run for 11 and the 1st down. Not so this time. Not sure who to really blame for this one. The Browns have good coverage, our line seems to pick them up alright, Ben has nowhere to throw the ball...so he tries to run but gets tackled. Seems like less a sack than a run that results in a tackle for a loss. Just happens to be Ben with the ball.


    8th sack: Easier to show this one then try to talk about it:

    http://youtu.be/zJpvlw0RElo


    Looks like Ben might have been able to get it to Heath short, but other than that I don't really have anything to say about this one.

    So, in summation, I did not see Ben "leaving the pocket early" on any of those sacks. I did, however, see a couple of times when Ben might have been able to get the ball to Heath for a short pass or possibly throw it away. The main thing that I saw was our O-Line sucking and sucking badly.

    Anyhow, I'd appreciate it if you kept your comments confined to this game alone for the time being instead of moving the goal posts to a different game. This was the specific game that I saw being discussed so this is the one I took a look at.

    Whether anyone else gets anything out of it doesn't matter to me because I enjoyed doing it.




    A couple of other things I noticed while watching the game:


    -Brady Quinn hahahahahaha


    -Nice to see Mendy on the field.


    -I wish Sepulveda could have stayed healthy. While not what you necessarily need in a punter, that guy could tackle (used to be an LB etc). He took Cribbs DOWN and prevented a TD on a return in the 1st.


    -Troy on the sidelines. Bah.


    -Watching Silverback getting held every friggin down is pissing me off even now.


    -While I like our WRs now, Ward/Holmes/Wallace/Heath is one hell of a receiving corps.


    -1 quarter in and Ben has the longest run for the Steelers at 11(?) yards.


    -Noticed some uncharacteristic drops by our receivers. Hines drops a well thrown quick pass that could've turned into a big gain towards the end of the 1st half. When we have 1st and goal at the end of the 1st half Heath drops a pass that hits him in the chest that would've been a TD. We settle for a FG instead (because there's only 2 seconds left on the clock). Huge drop by a wide open Mendenhall on 3rd down in the 4th quarter. It would have put us in field goal range but instead we had to punt. Wonder if the cold has something to do with it.


    -Ben to Holmes was money.
    You list O line stats. I told you the O line looks BAD because of Bens style. Ben even admits this. Ben knows his shortcomings. Again. when they speak of cerebral qbs. WHY dont they mention Ben? Why not?

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    He breaks down one game but I have broken down BENS WHOLE career up to 09. You can do the same for 2010 and 11 and you will see the same thing. He doesnt play well vs a good D. You blame the line? Well when Wiz and Grimm were here he was sacked FORTY SIX times! Was the LINE terrible then? Again, the problem is Ben. I also added the fact that Dixon passed 26 times vs the Ravens (Not sacked once). Ben plays the second game and is sacked 4 times.
    Skins game in 08 SAME LINE. Ben is sacked, picked beat up etc. Leftwich comes in and the line MIRACULOUSLY blocks beter. (Leftwich stays in the pocket). What happened to the bad line????

    Browns game in 08 SAME THING happened. Ben is carried off on a gurney and Leftwich comes in and its a whole new line.

    Eagles game the same thing. Oh by the way. Batch started for a resting Roethlisberger and passed I believe (Off the top of the head) 31 times and wasnt sacked ONCE (07).
    When Ben missed 4 games in 10, where was the sack problem? If didnt exist.

    Ben Roethlisberger vs Top Defenses up to 09

    09


    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/te...sition/defense

    Ravens #2 in Total Defense - Ben was 17-33 259 1 TD 1 int ELITE? HARDLY LOL Take away the 45 yard YAC by Wallace Ben is BELOW average vs. A GOOD D. Ben produced 2 TD's

    Packers #3- Ben did well vs. this Defense. 3rd overall BUT only TWELTH vs. the pass. Not to mention that TWO Dbs were injured for the Steelers game. Ben took advantage of a injured secondary However, Ben played up to his abilities in this game. No problem with giving him credit on this day. Again- Exception to the rule

    Vikings #4- 14-26 175 1 Td. ELITE? HARDLY. Again, Wallace Bails him out again with a fair catch TD of a punt. I mean pass by Ben. A pass Wallace had to stop, wave his hand and then catch. Ben produced 1 TD and 2fgs. THIRTEEN POINTS. Defense won this game.

    #5 Bengals (2) Game 1- 22-31- 276 1 TD 1int. ELITE? Again, Wallace catches a long pass that should have been SIX but the LETHARGIC one led him out of bounds with the poor pass. Ben also overthrew a wide open Hines for six as well as Tone for six. Yes Limas dropped a Td that was like George Washingtons face- On The Money. But WHY does that failed TD get more recognition than the THREE that Ben failed on? Ben produced TWO TD's.


    #5 Bengals Game 2. 20-40- 171 1 INT ELITE? He was sacked four times and his passer rating of 51.5 was his lowest since a 38.6 in a loss to the Giants (ANOTHER GOOD D) Ben produced NO TD's.

    #7 Broncos- 21-29- 233 3TD's 1 int. These stats were aided by a strong performance from our Defense. Tyrone took one to the house. The Defense also got 2 more picks to put us in position to score and Ben took advantage of the good field position and got tds. This is how you utilize a strong D. You reward them by executing well and putting the dagger into the oppposition by scoring TD's. Notice how the game wasn't close? That's how MOST of our games should be, considering the strength of our D.

    Now contrast These stats to the TEN games vs. poor defenses. NOW do you see where Ben did his damage at? Excluding the Packer game of course. He played EXCELLENT that game!



    08


    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/te...ense/year/2008

    #2 Ravens (2)- Game 1 Ben was 14-24-191 1 TD 1 INT Sacked 3 Times. Benefited from ANOTHER TD from the defense (Woodley). Benefited from Tone taking a short pass and making it a big play/yac. Hines Also had a 49 yard catch and run, that bolstered Bens pedestrian stats. Having said that, they were still pedestrian despite that. ONE TD Produced by your ELITE qb. LOL

    Game 2 vs. Ravens 22-40-246 1TD Sacked 3 Times. ELITE? Hardly. The defense held the Ravens to NINE points and all we could muster was 13. Last second pass to Tone for the TD was clutch but long overdue. The Ravens shouldn't have even been in this game. Ben also lost a fumble this game. ONE TD. ELITE?? LOL

    #3 Eagles- Ben was 13-25-131 1 INT 2 lost fumbles and EIGHT SACKS LOL. Ben produced TWO fgs and gave them 2 more points with a BONEHEADED safety in the end zone. Slow to process the info (Did the same thing vs. the Browns in 09 by the goaline. Took a terrible sack). Leftwich had almost half Bens yardage in ONE drive. He burnt the blitz over and over. Made Jim Johnson stop blitzing. If Nate catches the TD Leftwich throws him that game would have been winnable. Despite the LETHARGIC ONE.

    #4 Skins- Ben got hurt late 2nd qtr. So he only played one half. He benefited from a blocked punt. He still played poorly. He was 5- 17- 50 yards and 1 INT and was sacked 5 times.. Leftwich comes in and he goes 7-10-129 and 1 TD not sacked once. Not saying Byron is better. He can just read a defense, faster.

    #5 Giants- 13-29-199 1 TD FOUR INTS and 1 lost fumble. Also sacked FIVE times. Ben played like crap in this game and we STILL should have won. We were leading until the Harrison safety. An example of how our STRONG Defense aids Ben.

    #7 Titans- 25-39-329 2 TD's 2INT's 5 SACKS, 2 lost Fumbles (one on the Titans ONE). Again, our defense put us in position to win this game but Bene made it impossible to do so. The Griffin pick six was the nail in the coffin. UGH

    #8 Cowboys- Ben 17-33-204 1TD, 5 sacks and 1 lost fumble. Ben could only produce two fgs. It was the DEFENSE on the int by Ike that set up Heaths td from ben. Townsends pick 6 won the game. Ben again putrid vs. a good defense.

    #10 Pats 17-33-179 2TDS 1 INT 1 lost fumble. With no Brady the Pats were no match for our team. We controlled the ball and ran all over them. Kinda like the 04 game with Plax (reg season).Mewelde and Willie were the reasons for this win. Ben, AGAIN, played mediocre vs. a good D. SEE A PATTERN?

    #11 Colts- Ben was 29-41-3INTS and 2 sacks. Worth noting My little Chimp-Peyton was 21-40-240 and 3 TD's. VS THE #1 DEFENSE

    Vs #2 Ravens AFCCG 16-33-255-1TD, 1 fumble lost and 4 sacks. We won this game based on the int by Polamalu and the great YAC by Tone.

    07


    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/te...ense/year/2007

    #4 Pats- 19-32-187- 1 TD, 3 sacks and 1 fumble lost (Brady was 32-46-399- 4TD's VS THE # 1 D-That's elite LOL)

    #6 Ravens (2) Game 1 Ben- 13-16-209 5 TD's. Monday Night game in those UGLY throwbacks. It was an epic game by Ben. Again, there is always an exception to every rule.

    Ravens Game 2- Ben sat out-resting for playoffs.

    #12 Jags- 15-32-142- 3 TD's and 5 sacks. A classic case of too little too late as Ben only generates SEVEN points through 3 qtrs. Plays up to his potential in the 4th. Too late.

    #12 Jags in playoffs-Ben does the same thing he did in the Regular season vs. this D. Plays horrible early and comes on strong late to make the HOMERS forget about the pick 6 he threw to Mathis. Stats Ben- 29-42-337 2 TD's, 3 INT's AND SIX sacks. I remember after this game the Steeler Nation attacked Tomlin for going for two points after the holding call. That call didn't lose the game. Ben's horrible 1st half did. You can NEVER get points back. But as usual, Ben can do no wrong. LOL

    You NOW know why Ben had such a good statistical season in 07. NO GOOD DEFENSES ON THE SCHEDULE. Contrast that with 08. SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

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