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Thread: Ben was Huge for 3 Quarters

  1. #161
    First the backpedal...

    Quote Originally Posted by stopplayn View Post
    Nice try Skip Bayless. I have repeatedly said BEN IS GOOD. That means he contributes to our wins, A LOT.
    Then the change-up!!

    Quote Originally Posted by stopplayn View Post
    He is just not the PRIMARY reason we are elite. The Defense is. This whold thread is textual proof of that statement. Sure you can TRY to dig up a bs arguement only to have me come back and dice you up again. Sucks huh?
    Argument changed. Goalposts moved.

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  2. #162
    In a debate, arguements change because OTHERS bring up different points. I am in this thread alone vs the whole board and you dont think that can derail an argument? Course not. Fact remains that I have consistently said that Ben is good and NOT elite. You dont like that statement NOR can you refute it so your next stance is to nit pick my arguments.

    Why dont you TRY To prove that Ben is the PRIMARY reason we are ellte. YOU CANT. I have said Ben is good REPEATEDLY on this board (No changup) you just cant refute what I post and its a glaring reality. Palmer STILL Outplayed Ben in the 4th. FACT

  3. #163
    Pro Bowler eniparadoxgma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopplayn View Post
    Yeah, my bad the 9 sacks came against the Browns.
    Well, I was just responding to what Ruthless posted and I'm disregarding my own advice by responding to you...but what the hey. First, I was talking about the Eagles game. I really don't remember the Browns game you're referring to. However, if it was the same year as the Eagles game (that I was referring to) then I will say that the O-Line that season was about the worst I have ever seen it.

    The sacks are NEVER on Ben its always the line, the foot, the shoulder, Arians, the woman in vegas...
    I would appreciate it if you would clarify what you're trying to say here. My first instinct is to interpret your statement as meaning that I, and apparently a lot of people in your opinion cast a blind eye to Ben's fault and "NEVER" will put the blame for sacks on him. You then give a list of things people do blame sacks on other than our QB. I, personally, know that Ben is the cause of a lot of his sacks and have never hesitated to say so. What I did say was that in that particular Eagles game I believe the majority of the sacks were on the offensive line.

    First, "the majority of" =\= "all" so even the specific statement I made proves you wrong. You are either employing a straw man argument intentionally or you are just incorrect. I would appreciate it if you would produce evidence that I, or any other poster on this board for that matter, have ever stated that Ben is not partly responsible for the amount of sacks he takes. I believe it is fairly obvious to anyone that might...dabble in watching football that Ben's playing style (extending plays when others don't, getting out of the pocket, holding onto the ball in order to try to make a play) is conducive to him taking more sacks than most other quarterbacks. Not sure who you're debating here...





    Its funny the MOMMENT Ben went out the sack problem stopped.
    *Moment. (I fully realize I'm a spelling nit)

    Leftwich was killing the blitz as we marched down the field.
    As I said, I don't recall this specific game.

    Not Saying Lefty is better (just smarter).
    What evidence do you have to back up your assertion?

    Did you see that STUPID saftey Ben gave them?
    I probably saw it, but I don't remember it. I can say though, that Ben sometimes makes what I consider bad (or you could say "stupid") decisions. There have been numerous times where I had no inkling what he was thinking when he threw a particular pass, or held onto the ball too long and took a sack, etc. Ben has his faults and he has his merits.

    Yep the Lines fault, I get it
    The line's fault? For what? The safety that I don't remember? Obviously *I'm* not saying that. I don't even remember the frigging play. So what do you "get"? I know what I get. I get a ringside seat for what I can only assume is you debating our friend the straw man.

    Well, that was fun. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to kill some time.
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  4. #164
    It was on a Thursday Night on NFL Network (Browns). The line was bad? Then how come the line was great the MOMMENT Leftwich came in (Skins, Browns (2), Eagles) Wasnt it the SAME LINE?

    In the Eagles game if the majority of the sacks were on the line then why did that SAME LINE block perfectly for Leftwich? I'll tell you why. Because Leftwich, Batch and Dixon STAY IN THE POCKET. Ben hurts himself by PREMATURELY leaving the pocket. The defender sees this and he moves with Ben but the Olinman can see where Ben is at. Makes it hard to block for. When a qb stays in the pocket the the lineman knows where he is at and its a joy to block for him (See Brady, Brees, Mannings etc) If Ben would STAY IN THE POCKET, he wouldnt have as many sacks.

    What evidence do I have that Leftwich is smarter? When he is in he reads the defense AT THE LINE. He audibles, he hot routes and his sight adjustments are expert. I cited the Eagles game. I will also cite the Skins game as well. Ben was ineffective and getting sacked left and right. He got hurt and Lefty started the 3rd quarter. The sacks stopped, the line was great (Because he stays IN THE POCKET). Lefty made a sight adjustment at the line on the goalline and hit Santonio for a TD. Lefty recognized that the cb was playing off of tone, made a hand signal (hot route) to Tone. Tone ran a slant and the TD was there. You watch Lefty at the line and then you watch Ben. There are glaring differences. Not saying Lefty is better, JUST SMARTER. He also did the same sight adjustments vs the Browns (2nd game) when Ben was carted off to the ambulance (Again, sacks galore, Enter Leftwich and they stopped).

    Now lets see. Browns, Skins, and Eagles games we have sacks galore. Take Ben out and they stop. Also, Dixon played for an injured Ben and passed TWENTY SIX times and wasnt sacked once VS THE RAVENS. Ben comes back for the 2nd Raven game and was sacked 4 times. We lost by three with Dixon and won by three with Ben. Yes Ben is better than Dixon (he sucks) but the sack problem only exists when Ben is playing. Batch started vs the Falcons and the Ravens and the sack problem was not a factor. Thats what evidence I have. They all get the ball out faster than Ben does but not better.

    You dont remember the stupid saftey? I posted the link to the game. Check it out. Bonehead rookie mistake. GET RID OF THE BALL BEN!!!

  5. #165
    Ben is tough, Ben is even clutch but he is not smart on the field. He has more physical tools than ANY QUARTERBACK IN THE GAME. But where Brady, Brees, Mannings, Rodgers, Rivers etc are better than him is in the MIND.

    When experts talk about cerebral Quarterbacks they NEVER mention Ben for a reason. There is just so much he doesnt do at the line of scrimmage. Ben will point out who the Mike backer is (holds two arms out), this is setting his line adjustments. What Ben does NOT do is pre snap read the defense and make an adjustment to what he sees at the line. Ben will just go with the called play. What if the play wont work vs the D you are looking at? Its up to the qb to change that play to a better one. Peyton Manning is an EXPERT at this. Bruce Arians would never handcuff a cerebral guy like Manning. Manning would simply change the play to a better one.

  6. #166
    Pro Bowler eniparadoxgma's Avatar
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    It's a 17 page thread. Where's the link to the Browns game footage you're referring to?
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  7. #167
    Pro Bowler eniparadoxgma's Avatar
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    What year and week was this game? I can't find a Thursday night game vs the Browns in 2008 or 2009.
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  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by eniparadoxgma View Post
    What year and week was this game? I can't find a Thursday night game vs the Browns in 2008 or 2009.
    It was December 10, 2009 in Cleveland...I was there...

    It was the coldest night of the year, probably, and Arians' game plan called for passing the ball like, 50 times in cold weather against the worst rushing defense in the NFL...

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by eniparadoxgma View Post
    It's a 17 page thread. Where's the link to the Browns game footage you're referring to?
    I posted the Eagle game link

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapstick View Post
    It was December 10, 2009 in Cleveland...I was there...

    It was the coldest night of the year, probably, and Arians' game plan called for passing the ball like, 50 times in cold weather against the worst rushing defense in the NFL...
    Has NOTHING to do with Arians. If Arians called a pass and the defense was vulnerable to the run then Peyton would audible to a run. Manning eliminates an OC as he should. The OC calls his play BEFORE he sees the defense. So a smart qb should change that play if a better one is available. Its called elite quarterbacking. I was also there.

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