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Thread: How much do you want the steelers to pay wallace?

  1. #21
    Legend papillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher View Post
    That's not true. They could theoretically give him a $5 year $50 million deal with a $20 million signing bonus (I used these numbers to make the math easy). Looks like his cap hit should be $10 million, which we cannot afford with only $5 million worth of space...well that's how it works in hockey, but not in football. They could simply give him a veteran minimum salary for 2012 ($700,000, I believe), plus the pro-rated portion of his signing bonus, which in this case would be $4 million per year. In this example, his cap hit for 2012 would be $4.7 million.
    The Steelers are still going to have to squeeze DeCastro in as well. Or, does each team get a cap number for rookies that is separate from the rest of the team? His contract will probably have a $750,000 to 1,250,000 cap hit I would think. The Steelers are not in a good position from a cap perspective to give Wallace relatively big money, unless, they can get an extra year added on to the contract and reduce his pro-rated signing bonus. I believe there will be a Mike Wallace to be had in almost every round of future drafts, except maybe the 7th. His contract could haunt the Steelers for a few years if they aren't careful, IMO.

    Don't the Steelers have to leave a little room, say 1-2 million in case of injuries, suspensions, etc? I'm by no means a contract negotiator and I don't have all the facts about the Steeler cap situation. Does the current cap number include Wallace's tender? If it does that would add a nice chunk of change for the Steelers to use to help sign Wallace. It would increase the amount they have to spend by the amount of the tender, which is, I believe, $2.75 million right now.

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    Last edited by papillon; 07-22-2012 at 11:10 PM.


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  2. #22
    Pro Bowler D Rock's Avatar
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    Here is a link to the WR average salary lists:

    http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/...wide-receiver/

    I just went through every team's WR roster and picked out all the guys essentially equal to and above Wallace's production over the past 3 years. Here are their contract averages and years signed:

    Better than Wallace:

    Roddy White - 8 (2009)
    Andre Johnson - 8.957 (2010)
    Brandon Marshall - 9.46 (2010)
    Larry Fitzgerald - 16.0625 (2011)
    Wes Welker - 9.515 (franchise tag, 2012)
    Calvin Johnson - 18.8125 (2012)


    Pretty much equal to Wallace:

    Greg Jennings - 6.72 (2009)
    Hakeem Nicks - 2.508 (rookie contract, 2009)
    Miles Austin - 8.167 (2010)
    Jordy Nelson - 4.45 (pre-breakout season, 2011)
    Steve Smith - 9.4375 (2012)
    Marques Colston - 7.26 (2012)
    Vincent Jackson - 11.1 (2012)
    Reggie Wayne - 5.833 (end of career contract, 2012)
    Dwayne Bowe - 9.515 (franchise tag, 2012)
    Desean Jackson - 10.2 (2012)


    Salary for top WRs has pretty much gone up 1 million a year since 2009. Colston is a ridiculous steal fore New Orleans at his price tag, and the Packers locked up Jordy Nelson just in time before he went big last season. Besides that, these numbers certainly show that Wallace is in the 10-11 million/year price range according to his production, and certainly no lower than 9M/year. The Steelers may not offer that...they may not be able to...but this shows that some team would. The only single team that has gotten a good price in the past 2 years was New Orleans with Colston. I don't expect that to happen with Wallace...I still don't know how it happened with Colston.

  3. #23
    Pro Bowler D Rock's Avatar
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    Consider this: In 2014 the team will have about 34 million tied up between Harrison, Woodley, and Timmons, split fairly evenly all around. That's going to be the financial noose around the teams neck if there is one, not any contracts given to Wallace and Brown, which if given will be given knowing the current landscape of the salary cap and CBA. The cap is expected to stay pretty much flat through the 2015 season.

  4. #24
    Legend hawaiiansteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Rock View Post
    Consider this: In 2014 the team will have about 34 million tied up between Harrison, Woodley, and Timmons, split fairly evenly all around.

    I don't believe Deebo will still be playing in 2014...

  5. #25
    Pro Bowler D Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel View Post
    I don't believe Deebo will still be playing in 2014...
    Neither do I, but you have to factor in his money now in case he is. If he is cut after the 2013 season, he will still be on the books for the remaining 4,115,500 of his bonus money. It will save the 7,575,000 at that point, but the 4+ million is a lot of dead money. The team has ~9 million this year in dead money. Casey Hampton (5 mil) and Larry Foote (3.6 mil) will be off the books next year, so that is a lot of money that can then go to Antonio Brown for a new contract, and also kick some of it to whatever Wallace needs to be paid.

    Here's another upcoming decision: Ike Taylor is getting ~4.3 mil this year in cap space. Next year it jumps way up to 9.5, and in 2014 it is 10.5. Ike will be 33 to start next season. If the three young corners show some skill, it can reasonably be expected that Ike Taylor will be a cap casualty. Willie Colon also jumps almost 5 million next year from 2.85 to 7.7. If the 4 young linemen flash the ability to play to their expected abilities, then Colon likely is too expensive to keep as the oldest and worst of the starting 5.


    Moral of the story...there are A LOT of places where the team can find money in the next couple of years if they need it. Farrior, Ward, and Smith are likely just the tip of the iceberg in a total generational shift.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SidSmythe View Post
    I wouldn't work out a deal right now b/c of Antonio Brown.
    So I'd stay right where we are at and let Wallace and Brown prove this year who's the better WR.
    We won't be keeping both and I'd put my money on BROWN to be the better of the two.
    This sounds like a good idea. But, how would it be worked out? Yes, it would be nice for the Steelers to get another year to confirm their evaluation of the player but then it could backfire and he could absolutely price himself out of their range.
    ]
    As D Rock has pointed out MW's stat production is very high. I was actually surprised looking at what he has done the past 3 years and in almost all the categories I think are important he is right there with the best of them and in many cases above these top 10 really high priced people. The real Steeler fans though, do know there are still some concerns.

    The question is can the Steelers risk losing this player. I don't think so. My guess is he will sign by Thursday afternoon.

    Uhh! It's either that or perhaps the rumor that Hines Ward has his dancing shoes in the shoemaker shop getting spikes put on is true. LOL

  7. #27
    I go 5 years, 40-42 million, with approximately $18 million guaranteed. The Steelers could essentially keep Wallace for 2 years at $12-13 million, leaving him with no guarantee thereafter. A deal like this pays Wallace better and gives him more security up front, but pays him less than he might make on the open market in the later years.

    I'd structure the deal to use as much of the cap as possible for this year, leaving a small allowance to sign an injury replacement if necessary.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Rock View Post
    Here is a link to the WR average salary lists:

    http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/...wide-receiver/

    I just went through every team's WR roster and picked out all the guys essentially equal to and above Wallace's production over the past 3 years. Here are their contract averages and years signed:

    Better than Wallace:

    Roddy White - 8 (2009)
    Andre Johnson - 8.957 (2010)
    Brandon Marshall - 9.46 (2010)
    Larry Fitzgerald - 16.0625 (2011)
    Wes Welker - 9.515 (franchise tag, 2012)
    Calvin Johnson - 18.8125 (2012)


    Pretty much equal to Wallace:

    Greg Jennings - 6.72 (2009)
    Hakeem Nicks - 2.508 (rookie contract, 2009)
    Miles Austin - 8.167 (2010)
    Jordy Nelson - 4.45 (pre-breakout season, 2011)
    Steve Smith - 9.4375 (2012)
    Marques Colston - 7.26 (2012)
    Vincent Jackson - 11.1 (2012)
    Reggie Wayne - 5.833 (end of career contract, 2012)
    Dwayne Bowe - 9.515 (franchise tag, 2012)
    Desean Jackson - 10.2 (2012)


    Salary for top WRs has pretty much gone up 1 million a year since 2009. Colston is a ridiculous steal fore New Orleans at his price tag, and the Packers locked up Jordy Nelson just in time before he went big last season. Besides that, these numbers certainly show that Wallace is in the 10-11 million/year price range according to his production, and certainly no lower than 9M/year. The Steelers may not offer that...they may not be able to...but this shows that some team would. The only single team that has gotten a good price in the past 2 years was New Orleans with Colston. I don't expect that to happen with Wallace...I still don't know how it happened with Colston.

    I think this list is likely Mike Wallace's starting point. But for the Steelers, they owe him $2.7M this year, so that's their starting point. Actually it should be less because Wallace never signed the tender.

    $2.7M + ~$10M + ~$10M is worth about $23M over the next 3 years which could be close to the point where he loses he speed and some of his value.

    So Wallace is pretty much against that wall of $23M if we franchise him to keep him for 3 years at which point, he may not be worth the big contract if he loses a step.

    So ultimately, I'd say reasonable would be:

    3 yrs - $7M/yr
    4 yrs - $8M/yr
    5 yrs - $9M/yr

    Maybe a little discount from there for guaranteeing up front money.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by flippy View Post
    I think this list is likely Mike Wallace's starting point. But for the Steelers, they owe him $2.7M this year, so that's their starting point. Actually it should be less because Wallace never signed the tender.

    $2.7M + ~$10M + ~$10M is worth about $23M over the next 3 years which could be close to the point where he loses he speed and some of his value.

    So Wallace is pretty much against that wall of $23M if we franchise him to keep him for 3 years at which point, he may not be worth the big contract if he loses a step.

    So ultimately, I'd say reasonable would be:

    3 yrs - $7M/yr
    4 yrs - $8M/yr
    5 yrs - $9M/yr

    Maybe a little discount from there for guaranteeing up front money.
    Flippy, I agree that the fact that Wallace can be controlled this year for just $2.7 is a big factor to consider when evaluating his contract. Guys like DeSean and Vince Jackson aren't equal comps because, as potential UFAs (and having been Franchise tagged in D. Jackson's case) they had more leverage.

  10. #30
    Legend RuthlessBurgher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papillon View Post
    Does the current cap number include Wallace's tender? If it does that would add a nice chunk of change for the Steelers to use to help sign Wallace. It would increase the amount they have to spend by the amount of the tender, which is, I believe, $2.75 million right now.
    Yes, I believe that the $2,742,000 has already been applied to our cap when we issued the RFA tender (even though Mike has not signed the tender). We have enough to sign DeCastro, extend Wallace, and still have $1-2 million left over in the kitty for emergencies.

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