Gronkowski???

[feltdizz]

if the Patriots* win this Super Bowl Tom Brady will tie Terry Bradshaw and Joe Montana with 4 Super Bowl victories and that stat alone will put him in the conversation with the greatest QBs that have ever played the game.

And that would be a shame because I see him as a fraud. A fraud with a great and accurate arm, but none the less a fraud.

You are letting your hatred for Brady blind your judgment.

The tapes were destroyed for a reason. The guy didn't say Brady sucked or didn't have a great arm... simply called him a fraud because of spygate.

It's linked to his career just like steroids are linked to half of the current baseball greats. Doesn't mean they aren't great players... just leaves room for doubt about how great they truly are due to cheating.

[AngryAsian]

Marsha the Mirage. He plays in an offense built just for him with players acquired, to fit the offense built for him, via the draft to the detriment of the defense. Add to that the fact that he gets an unfair advantage thru cheating and that is what makes him what he is, a GOOD quarterback and that is all. Matt Cassell in his first starting role since high school went 11-5 with the talent that surrounds Marsha. Enough said.

That's hilarious... A franchise player gets a periodically pro-bowl line built around him so he's protected, then gets schemes game-planned that will exploit his strengths in the pocket, then gets skilled players drafted so that regardless of whether you are a TE, WR, or RB, your QB has myriad of options so that he can amass enough TDs and yardage that regardless of what OC is hired to call plays, your offense always seems to generate top echelon numbers to where your team gets wins and goes to the playoffs practically every season. Ya, sounds like 'mirage' all right. So many of you sound like whiney Browns fans.

I hate the Pats, and will be cheering for the Gmen this Sunday to hand them an embarrassing loss, but some of you who detest him screaming at fans in our stadium while reving up his team mates would be pumped up as hell if Ben did the same in Gillette stadium. It's called leadership folks, something I'm pretty sure is required of his position. I detest our losses to the cheats these past years, but I'm not going to continue to blame the cheating scandal for every loss we've ever suffered at their hands. I can hate a team and still give some respect for an obvious winning formula.

[JTP53609]

I am glad to read some of the posts...
I never understood why people just make up a reason to say why Tom Brady sucks, In my opinion he is one of the best qb's of all time and if he wins this super bowl he may be the best of all time. I am willing to bet that alot of teams have cheated like the Patriots did, and who knows if may have helped in their early 2000's success, but Tom Brady is just that good too.
Big deal, he spiked a ball at the back of then endzone while facing the stands at Heinz Field, so does Hines Ward at opposing stadiums and evey running back in the NFL. He probably does hate the Steelers, but he hates us because we are the biggest AFC rival in terms of championships during his time.
Lastly, to say he has had weapons his entire career is not true, outside of 2007, look at his first few years as a qb, they have constantly not had a running game and he has had the likes of patten, branch, an old veteran receiver in brown during his 3 championships, and finally in 2007 he got moss, and welker and look at his numbers. He has made a second round pick in gronkowski look to be the greatest T.E. of all time in just 2 seasons and he is a leader....

That being said, gosh, I hate the patriots, but it is ridiculous to say he sucks, we do sound like wimpy fans when we say dumb things like that....

[feltdizz]

I haven't seen anyone say Brady sucks...

most question the cheating and if he is truly "the greatest"

I think anyone who reads "Brady sucks" and literally thinks they mean he is a bum need to get a grip.

[pick6]

You see this is the problem. People just can't seem to get the facts straight even when its in print, right in front of their faces. The people who truly understand the level of this guys arrogance have all taken note of his excellent passing abilities. Therefore, unless you guys are just bringing up a point out of nowhere, which is fine, your statements about not giving the low life sissy boy credit or that song about looking small, are without grounds, completely. Yeah he can throw the ball. So what? Our point is that the guy is pompous and arrogant, he tries to show up other players (but would never talk smack in any other setting other than one in which he is protected), tries to show up fans in other stadiums, and he hates the Steelers just like his coach. He's simply an enemy.

Furthermore, he and his coach came together to cheat us out of 2 possible Superbowl appearances and if a Steeler fan is willing to let that slide because his man crush slash fan boy tendencies are just so strong that he is compelled to join the herds of oblivious sycophants then that just sucks... for whoever that may be. The bulk of this guys so called legacy is based on he and his coaches stealing/filming other team signals along with other things to gain an unfair advantage over other teams. Half the time they knew exactly what was coming and still just barely won some of those games. Then Goodell destroys that tapes. Can you imagine what was on those tapes. I would not be shocked if these scoundrels, belicheck in particular, had found a new way to cheat to this day. Look at the behavior of Mcdaniel, and then they hire this brazen and dishonored cheat right back onto the team. They need his ability to decode signals and transform them into actionable intelligence, probably. Birds of a feather, that includes your hero brady.

This is utter silliness. I didn't make a comment towards you. I made a comment towards winwin. He stated Brady is a "mirage" and it was all about the O and his supporting cast. If you want to call him arrogant or pompous more power to you. But. it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. He doesn't have to be a great person to be a great QB. I have no judgments about Brady the person. But, I do have judgments about Brady the QB, and he is a top 5 QB to ever play the game. If he wins the SB this season he will jump to 1 in my book. If that doesn't sit well with you, or anyone else...oh well. Many of us get worked up when Ben doesn't get his due from other fans. Many get worked up when Ben the person is judged. These are usually the same people who are first to make comments like these. It's lame.

This is why I love the written word, for it is the thorn in the side of the tragically obtuse. You seem to be overcome with what I call selective reasoning. It's when you dismiss an entire argument based on only part of what your opponent has said. At the same time ignoring or at least failing to address key components of the opposing argument. Some of us lack the ability to listen carefully to the spoken word, while at the same time formulating our own position on what's being said to us. So a person might forget part of what's being said. I can sympathize with these people. I can find no such excuse when it comes to the written word.

Although brady is a great passer, I don't like him and I question the validity of his record as a true champion. I gave a few reasons why. I even split my ideas into 2 paragraphs so that people like you could more easily understand. Also you say that part of what I say about his arrogance is irrelevant to the discussion yet you and I were not have a discussion until you addressed me directly. I was making a statement and I did not attach anyone's post for a reason, as it was not directed a any specific post but at all brady fan boys and apologist. So my statements are relevant as they reflect my position on him.

We seem to agree that he can throw the ball. You don't seem to care that he hates Steelers as it has no bearing on his QB abilities. Ok, you're drawing a line,I get where you are coming from on that note. But, amazingly you don't address the heart of my argument which was the bulk and conclusion of my post, that being that Brady benefited from spygate. This is why he is not the best to me. Am I saying that he is a poor qb, no. Am I saying that he knew what a defense was going to from other than natural and legal means, absolutely. He is a cheat and his coach is a cheat. So although he can wing it and can't say that he is the best when many of his accomplishments are clearly tainted. This is clear logic. Your judgment has been compromised. Only a true fan boy or media pundit would not understand the simple logic that I have expressed. Now if you you want to rebut that's great, I can always learn something, but please address what I have said.

As for the 19-1 season, like I said he is good and I dont know that the cheating had completely stopped but I do know that that season was as much about Randy Moss as it was about your hero. Just look at that horrible second pick that brady threw against the ravens. I think he had flashbacks to the Moss season when he could throw it up like that and Moss would catch it for a TD almost everytime. If Moss was there that horrible pass and decision would have been an epic TD and you would have watched Brady go insane and get all pumped and all the fan boys and pundits would have had to take a shower.

By the way nice sig. Here's to getting out of the box even when it comes to sports.

[RuthlessBurgher]

I haven't seen anyone say Brady sucks...

most question the cheating and if he is truly "the greatest"

I think anyone who reads "Brady sucks" and literally thinks they mean he is a bum need to get a grip.

TOM BRADY SUCKS!!!

[pick6]

I haven't seen anyone say Brady sucks...

most question the cheating and if he is truly "the greatest"

I think anyone who reads "Brady sucks" and literally thinks they mean he is a bum need to get a grip.

TOM BRADY SUCKS!!!

Brevity is Genius. And judging from the length of my post I am not. HaHa. You always manage to say it all without effort. Good post. Just be ready for the equivocators.

[Shawn]

Pick6, while I wasn't trying to get your goat...merely make a point. I know when someone begins using phrases like "tragically obtuse" on a message board they are insecure. Listen, it's just a football message community. It's not scholarly analysis of human physiology and psychology. You are allowed to have your opinion, I just disagree with it.

[Ghost]

Pick6, while I wasn't trying to get your goat...merely make a point. I know when someone begins using phrases like "tragically obtuse" on a message board they are insecure. Listen, it's just a football message community. It's not scholarly analysis of human physiology and psychology. You are allowed to have your opinion, I just disagree with it.

Shawn - never again will I try to conciliate you using fancy words and phases. I am quite secure. I mean, I think I am. Right, you think I'm secure, don't you? Please...

[feltdizz]

I haven't seen anyone say Brady sucks...

most question the cheating and if he is truly "the greatest"

I think anyone who reads "Brady sucks" and literally thinks they mean he is a bum need to get a grip.

TOM BRADY SUCKS!!!

Is that the real photo of Tom Brady's Pro Day? No wonder he lasted until the 6th round. Yeah.. he's been cheating!