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Thread: Discount Double Choke!

  1. #21

    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    [quote=Dee Dub]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Eddie Spaghetti":2cc37mg5
    where are all of the "experts" who kept saying what a great co-ordinator that dom capers is?

    you know who you are.
    Right here! One season doesnt not make a great or bad coordinator. I think his overall track record speaks for itself. What he did with the Steelers as well as last year with the Packers is pretty great if you ask me.[/quotec37mg5]

    I think lebeaus overall track record speaks for itself as well.

    its a shame steeler fans can't see it.

  2. #22
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    [quote=Eddie Spaghetti][quote="Dee Dub":119f7ape]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Eddie Spaghetti":119f7ape
    where are all of the "experts" who kept saying what a great co-ordinator that dom capers is?

    you know who you are.
    Right here! One season doesnt not make a great or bad coordinator. I think his overall track record speaks for itself. What he did with the Steelers as well as last year with the Packers is pretty great if you ask me.[/quote:119f7ape]

    I think lebeaus overall track record speaks for itself as well.

    its a shame steeler fans can't see it.[/quote:119f7ape]

    I will never be one who discounts what LeBeau has done for the Steelers. He is truly one of the games greatest. However, over the past two seasons it is clear he has changed. What we know of LeBeau we have not seen scheme wise the past two seasons.

    And I for one believe that had Dom Capers had the same defenses (players), that LeBeau has had over the past 8 years, he would have been just as successful. His years as Steeler defensive coordiantor from 1992-1994 are evidence of that.


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  3. #23
    Legend RuthlessBurgher's Avatar
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    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    Gotta love how some people criticize LeBeau because he has clearly changed over the last few seasons, while others criticize LeBeau because he is so stubbornly devoted to his system and will never ever change. Which is it...should we send him out to pasture because he has changed or because he refuses to change? I'm confused...


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  4. #24
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    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    [quote=Dee Dub][quote="Eddie Spaghetti":jxcktwyq][quote="Dee Dub":jxcktwyq]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Eddie Spaghetti":jxcktwyq
    where are all of the "experts" who kept saying what a great co-ordinator that dom capers is?

    you know who you are.
    Right here! One season doesnt not make a great or bad coordinator. I think his overall track record speaks for itself. What he did with the Steelers as well as last year with the Packers is pretty great if you ask me.[/quote:jxcktwyq]

    I think lebeaus overall track record speaks for itself as well.

    its a shame steeler fans can't see it.[/quote:jxcktwyq]

    I will never be one who discounts what LeBeau has done for the Steelers. He is truly one of the games greatest. However, over the past two seasons it is clear he has changed. What we know of LeBeau we have not seen scheme wise the past two seasons.

    And I for one believe that had Dom Capers had the same defenses (players), that LeBeau has had over the past 8 years, he would have been just as successful. His years as Steeler defensive coordiantor from 1992-1994 are evidence of that.[/quote:jxcktwyq]

    Blitz Burgh was new in 92-94... not sure the evidence from back then has anything to do with the GB D of today..

    We have LB's but Green Bay has better DB's IMO.

    Regardless of the players a coach has to put them in the best situation to succeed and it looks like Capers said "fugh it" this year...

  5. #25
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    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Gotta love how some people criticize LeBeau because he has clearly changed over the last few seasons, while others criticize LeBeau because he is so stubbornly devoted to his system and will never ever change. Which is it...should we send him out to pasture because he has changed or because he refuses to change? I'm confused...

    Discount Double Check Ruthie, Discount Double Check!




  6. #26
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Gotta love how some people criticize LeBeau because he has clearly changed over the last few seasons, while others criticize LeBeau because he is so stubbornly devoted to his system and will never ever change. Which is it...should we send him out to pasture because he has changed or because he refuses to change? I'm confused...
    Well that's what separates me from the rest Ruthless. You havent heard that garbage from me. I have been consistant in what I have said. Over the past two years Lebeau has gone away from his strength...bringing pressure after the QB. The whole strength of this 3-4 zone blitz is bring his backers after the QB. That has gone a way to a large degree the past two years.

    I will concede that not having a cover free safety and using your strong safety up in the box or near the line of scrimmage plays some part in that...but you should live and die with what you are made for. Not by dying with a 3 or 4 man pass rush and still watching opposing receivers beat your secondary.


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    1--Justin Gilbert CB Oklahoma State
    2--Jordan Matthews WR Vanderbilt
    3-- -- Traded --
    3B--C.J. Fiedorwicz TE Iowa
    4--Jordan Tripp ILB Montana
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  7. #27
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    [quote=feltdizz][quote=Dee Dub][quote="Eddie Spaghetti":2q4dn2fp]
    Quote Originally Posted by "Dee Dub":2q4dn2fp
    Quote Originally Posted by "Eddie Spaghetti":2q4dn2fp
    where are all of the "experts" who kept saying what a great co-ordinator that dom capers is?

    you know who you are.
    Right here! One season doesnt not make a great or bad coordinator. I think his overall track record speaks for itself. What he did with the Steelers as well as last year with the Packers is pretty great if you ask me.
    I think lebeaus overall track record speaks for itself as well.

    its a shame steeler fans can't see it.[/quote:2q4dn2fp]

    I will never be one who discounts what LeBeau has done for the Steelers. He is truly one of the games greatest. However, over the past two seasons it is clear he has changed. What we know of LeBeau we have not seen scheme wise the past two seasons.

    And I for one believe that had Dom Capers had the same defenses (players), that LeBeau has had over the past 8 years, he would have been just as successful. His years as Steeler defensive coordiantor from 1992-1994 are evidence of that.[/quote:2q4dn2fp]

    Blitz Burgh was new in 92-94... ...[/quote:2q4dn2fp]

    What does that mean? The 3-4 zone blitz wasnt new in 92. It started along time before that.


    Steelers 2014 Draft

    1--Justin Gilbert CB Oklahoma State
    2--Jordan Matthews WR Vanderbilt
    3-- -- Traded --
    3B--C.J. Fiedorwicz TE Iowa
    4--Jordan Tripp ILB Montana
    5--Brent Urban DE Virginia
    6--Michael Schofield OT Michigan
    7--Kadeem Edwards OG Tennessee State









  8. #28
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    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Dub
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz

    What does that mean? The 3-4 zone blitz wasnt new in 92. It started along time before that.
    http://<br /> <br /> It was new to u...</div> </div>
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/tim_layden/01/31/zone-blitz/index.html

    ...In '92, Kansas City Chiefs defensive coordinator Bill Cowher was brought to Pittsburgh as head coach, and Cowher hired Capers as his defensive coordinator and then brought in none other than Dick LeBeau to coach his secondary, after LeBeau had been ousted in Cincinnati with head coach Wyche.

    The two Buckeyes, Capers and LeBeau, put their heads and their experience together. "Dick had done more zone blitzing than I had," recalls Capers. "But I had done some too. We started talking, and it was really pretty exciting."

    Less exciting was the Steelers' personnel. Pittsburgh had gone 7-9 the previous year. "Our pass rushers were not nearly as good as what we had in New Orleans," says Capers. "Three quarters of the way through that first season, we only had 19 sacks. We just weren't getting to the quarterback enough. It reached the point, late in that season, where Dick and I just said to each other, 'We've got to do something X's and O's-wise because our front seven guys are just not beating people one-on-one.'

    "If you looked at our secondary," Capers continues, "we had some pretty good guys back there -- Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake. So in the latter part of the season we started mixing in some zone pressures and getting more pressure on the quarterback. The secondary responded well, and the guys up front loved it because it was aggressive." The Steelers improved so significantly down the stretch that year, en route to an 11--5 record, that they finished No. 2 in the league in scoring defense.

    In the offseason Capers and LeBeau committed totally to the zone blitz, hence giving birth to the nickname Blitz-burgh Steelers. The Steelers also added outside linebacker Kevin Greene and inside linebacker Chad Brown, upgrading their front seven.

    Says Capers, "That second year we ended up doing a lot of zone pressuring. We started doing things like having a lineman step forward to occupy a blocker and then dropping back into coverage. And we found that offenses started to play us differently. Their linemen couldn't be as aggressive because they just didn't know if our guys were coming. So much of football is mental, and if you can make an offensive line passive, that's half the battle. Then if you can confuse them by dropping guys out into pass coverage when they think they're going to pass-rush, that's another big part of it."

    Those seasons in the early '90s established the Steelers' defensive reputation that has lived on for nearly two decades. As a team the Steelers ascended through the postseason, from a playoff loss in the '93 season to a conference championship loss to the Chargers in '94 to a Super Bowl loss to the Cowboys ending the '95 season. "We jumped off the diving board with the zone blitz in Pittsburgh," says LeBeau. "And it turns out we could swim pretty well."

  9. #29
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    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    kind of odd/funny to give Dom Capers all that credit when both he and Lebeau came up with Blitzburgh back in 91/92

  10. #30
    Hall of Famer Dee Dub's Avatar
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    Re: Discount Double Choke!

    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz
    kind of odd/funny to give Dom Capers all that credit when both he and Lebeau came up with Blitzburgh back in 91/92
    What are you talking about? Who said Capers gets all the credit for the 3-4 zone blitz? I said that it was in the NFL long before 1992. I think you should read up on your history. Bill Arnsparger of the Dolphins was running that as early as 1971.


    Steelers 2014 Draft

    1--Justin Gilbert CB Oklahoma State
    2--Jordan Matthews WR Vanderbilt
    3-- -- Traded --
    3B--C.J. Fiedorwicz TE Iowa
    4--Jordan Tripp ILB Montana
    5--Brent Urban DE Virginia
    6--Michael Schofield OT Michigan
    7--Kadeem Edwards OG Tennessee State









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