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Thread: #1 Pass Defense was a huge mirage

  1. #11
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    Re: #1 Pass Defense was a huge mirage

    I'd rather play a tougher schedule and have a worse record in the regular season that prepares us for the playoffs.

    This isn't college football where we can load up with cream puffs on the schedule.

    I would like to see the Steelers play the hardest schedule every year.

    Everything about this team was a mirage this year. It was evident. We didn't matchup well against any playoff team really even if we were healthy.

    And we all pretty much knew it on opening day just how bad it was.

  2. #12

    Re: #1 Pass Defense was a huge mirage

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelerphile
    I think you need to do thiis type of breakdown for more than one team to be more convincing from my point of view. I don't think any defense plays a murderer's row of QBs week after week.

    The Steelers still played NFL teams not the Big East and I think calling their accomplishments a HUGE mirage is a HUGE overstatement.

    #2 Pass Def: Cleveland --- QBs faced were Andy Dalton (2), Kerry Collins, Chad Henne, Matt Hasselbeck, Kyle Boller, Tavaris Jackson, Alex Smith, Matt Schaub, Sam Bradford, Blaine Gabbert, Joe Flacco (2), Ben Roethlisberger (2), John Skelton.

    Differences: They faced Ben (2), Flacco (2), Smith, Schaub, Bradford -- 7 games against what I would consider high-level QBs.

    #3 Pass Def: Texans - QBs faced were Kerry Collins, Dan Orlovsky, Henne, Brees, Roethlisberger, Jason Campbell, Flacco, Gabbert (2), Hasselbeck (2), Josh Freeman, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Colt McCoy

    Differences: They faced Brees, Newton, Ryan, Roethlisberger, & Flacco --- five games against high-level QBs.

    #4 Pass Def : Ravens -- faced virtually the same QBs as us, but 2 vs Roethlisberger replace 2 vs Flacco, 1 vs Sanchez replaces 1 vs Brady, and 1 vs Rivers replaces 1 vs Palko, and they got Bradford instead of Clemens when they played the Rams. Otherwise everyone else was pretty much the same.

    Differences: They faces 2 vs Ben, Bradford, Schaub, Rivers, Smith, maybe include Sanchez, they played him early in the season before the wheels started to fall off the Jets offense --- 6 maybe 7 games against very good QBs.

    #5 Pass Def: Jets -- faced Brady (2), Fitz (2), Matt Moore (2), Rivers, Campbell, Tebow, Palko, Romo, Vick, Grossman, Manning, Flacco, Gabbert


    The Jets truly did face a murderer's row --- Brady (2), Rivers, Romo, Vick, Manning, Flacco -- easily 7 very good QBs right there, and neither Fitzpatrick nor Moore was on the level of Painter / Palko / McCoy horrible this year. That's 11 games against good QB play.

    How about St Louis at #7 --- they had to face Alex Smith (2), TJax (2), Sketlon(2), Flacco, Batch, Dalton, McCoy, Brees, Rodgers, Vick, E. Manning, Grossman, Romo.

    That's 8 games -- Brees, Rodgers, Romo, Manning, Flacco, Vick, 2 vs Smith -- against TOP QBs.

    Steelers had Brady, Flacco (2), Schaub, Smith --- 5 games, 4 if you want to consider how horrible Flacco usually is in Heinz.

    Top ranked pass defenses DID frequently face as many as twice the number of elite QBs at the Steelers did this year. The Steelers played well --- I'm not denying that. I just don't think they were really tested before the playoffs got here. The media kept saying that the Steelers #1 pass defense was going to be the difference. I don't think this was the same quality #1 pass defense we saw back in 2009, despite having many of the same players on the field.

    Or maybe it was, and Ike Taylor just had a horrible day. All I was saying is that they were rarely tested with a high caliber passing attach this year.

  3. #13

    Re: #1 Pass Defense was a huge mirage

    Quote Originally Posted by flippy
    I'd rather play a tougher schedule and have a worse record in the regular season that prepares us for the playoffs.

    This isn't college football where we can load up with cream puffs on the schedule.

    I would like to see the Steelers play the hardest schedule every year.

    Everything about this team was a mirage this year. It was evident. We didn't matchup well against any playoff team really even if we were healthy.

    And we all pretty much knew it on opening day just how bad it was.

    Exactly where I was going with this, Flippy. In 2008-09, at the outset of the season the big stat that kept getting tossed around was that the Steelers opponents had a cumulative 2007-08 record that was the highest EVER for any team. EVER. They went out and posted the league's #1 pass defense, #1 overall defense, and #1 scoring defense (sound familiar?) but lost during the season to Philadelphia (that retched 15-6 game), the Giants (Stonion's suspension, lost the punter), Indianapolis (score was closer than the game was), and a blowout to the Titans. All of these teams featured dynamic passing attacks, plus that year they played the Cowboys, Patriots (albeit with Cassell instead of Brady), the Chargers, & Texans, plus their customary AFC North foes Cincy & Cleveland had a little better QB'ing than they did this year (Carson Palmer and Derek Anderson). That team was 12-4 and had the same defensive rankings that this year's team did, but they were TESTED. McNabb, Manning, Manning, Collins, Romo, Flacco(2), Palmer (2), Rivers, Cassell, Schaub --- 12 games vs solid QBs!! Hell even Jacksonville had David Garrard and the Redskins had Jason Campbell. There was no Curtis Painter, Tyler Palko, Tavaris Jackson, Seneca Wallace, Kellen Clemens, or Colt McCoy in sight that year.

    This year? Yeah, not so much. :/

  4. #14
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    Re: #1 Pass Defense was a huge mirage

    I wonder what our 3rd down percentage was on D on pass plays.

  5. #15

    Re: #1 Pass Defense was a huge mirage

    Quote Originally Posted by DrCalculus
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelerphile
    I think you need to do thiis type of breakdown for more than one team to be more convincing from my point of view. I don't think any defense plays a murderer's row of QBs week after week.

    The Steelers still played NFL teams not the Big East and I think calling their accomplishments a HUGE mirage is a HUGE overstatement.

    #2 Pass Def: Cleveland --- QBs faced were Andy Dalton (2), Kerry Collins, Chad Henne, Matt Hasselbeck, Kyle Boller, Tavaris Jackson, Alex Smith, Matt Schaub, Sam Bradford, Blaine Gabbert, Joe Flacco (2), Ben Roethlisberger (2), John Skelton.

    Differences: They faced Ben (2), Flacco (2), Smith, Schaub, Bradford -- 7 games against what I would consider high-level QBs.

    #3 Pass Def: Texans - QBs faced were Kerry Collins, Dan Orlovsky, Henne, Brees, Roethlisberger, Jason Campbell, Flacco, Gabbert (2), Hasselbeck (2), Josh Freeman, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Colt McCoy

    Differences: They faced Brees, Newton, Ryan, Roethlisberger, & Flacco --- five games against high-level QBs.

    #4 Pass Def : Ravens -- faced virtually the same QBs as us, but 2 vs Roethlisberger replace 2 vs Flacco, 1 vs Sanchez replaces 1 vs Brady, and 1 vs Rivers replaces 1 vs Palko, and they got Bradford instead of Clemens when they played the Rams. Otherwise everyone else was pretty much the same.

    Differences: They faces 2 vs Ben, Bradford, Schaub, Rivers, Smith, maybe include Sanchez, they played him early in the season before the wheels started to fall off the Jets offense --- 6 maybe 7 games against very good QBs.

    #5 Pass Def: Jets -- faced Brady (2), Fitz (2), Matt Moore (2), Rivers, Campbell, Tebow, Palko, Romo, Vick, Grossman, Manning, Flacco, Gabbert


    The Jets truly did face a murderer's row --- Brady (2), Rivers, Romo, Vick, Manning, Flacco -- easily 7 very good QBs right there, and neither Fitzpatrick nor Moore was on the level of Painter / Palko / McCoy horrible this year. That's 11 games against good QB play.

    How about St Louis at #7 --- they had to face Alex Smith (2), TJax (2), Sketlon(2), Flacco, Batch, Dalton, McCoy, Brees, Rodgers, Vick, E. Manning, Grossman, Romo.

    That's 8 games -- Brees, Rodgers, Romo, Manning, Flacco, Vick, 2 vs Smith -- against TOP QBs.

    Steelers had Brady, Flacco (2), Schaub, Smith --- 5 games, 4 if you want to consider how horrible Flacco usually is in Heinz.

    Top ranked pass defenses DID frequently face as many as twice the number of elite QBs at the Steelers did this year. The Steelers played well --- I'm not denying that. I just don't think they were really tested before the playoffs got here. The media kept saying that the Steelers #1 pass defense was going to be the difference. I don't think this was the same quality #1 pass defense we saw back in 2009, despite having many of the same players on the field.

    Or maybe it was, and Ike Taylor just had a horrible day. All I was saying is that they were rarely tested with a high caliber passing attach this year.

    When the Steelers played Flacco, Smith and Schaub they are called bad QBs but you elevate your opinion of them when they play other teams. I still don't think the Steelers defensive ranking is HUGE mirage. I am not convinced by this. Your evaluation of QBs as top caliber, in various circumstances, is somewhat arbitrary and arguable.

  6. #16
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    Re: #1 Pass Defense was a huge mirage

    the true #1 defense is playing today. the difference in the way the secondaries play the ball is night and day

  7. #17
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    Re: #1 Pass Defense was a huge mirage

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER
    the true #1 defense is playing today. the difference in the way the secondaries play the ball is night and day

  8. #18

    Re: #1 Pass Defense was a huge mirage

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelerphile

    When the Steelers played Flacco, Smith and Schaub they are called bad QBs but you elevate your opinion of them when they play other teams. I still don't think the Steelers defensive ranking is HUGE mirage. I am not convinced by this. Your evaluation of QBs as top caliber, in various circumstances, is somewhat arbitrary and arguable.
    In what way did I ever say that Schaub, Smith, and Flacco were bad when I listed them among the Steelers opponents. I just didn't consider them "elite". That doesn't equate to bad. Go back and read my original post:

    "ONE game vs an Elite QB (Brady), THREE against decent QBS (Flacco in Baltimore, Schaub, & Smith), and 12 games against scrubs, back-ups, wash-ups, and rookies."

    = 4 games against good QBs, and 12 games against crappy QBs

    (OK, so I didn't call them "very good" -- but I definitely did not say they were "bad"...doesn't decent mean good? Merriam-Webster defines decent variously as: appropriate, fairly good --- as in "a decent starting QB, someone who actually is worthy of the job"...as opposed to, say, Tyler Palko or Curtis Painter)

    And I used similar language to describe Flacco, Smith, and Schaub in listing the opposing QBs for Cleveland, Baltimore, Houston, NYJ, & St Louis:

    "They faced Ben (2), Flacco (2), Smith, Schaub, Bradford -- 7 games against what I would consider high-level QBs."

    "6 maybe 7 games against very good QBs."

    "That's 11 games against good QB play."


    You're splitting hairs in my choice of adjectives. I clearly indicated Brady as elite, but said that Schaub, Smith, and Flacco counted among the good QBs that the Steelers faced. I mentioned that their OTHER 12 opponents were " scrubs, back-ups, wash-ups, and rookies". I similarly listed those three guys among the good QBs other teams with top pass defense rankings played against. How is that arbitrary? It is entirely consistent.

    Read what I wrote, not what you think you remember I wrote.

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