Little Ben Is Inconsistent, the Truth Hurts

[Scalaid6]

Dont get me wrong, Ben has all the physical tools that he needs, he is just lacking the mental tools to be considered "elite".

Define "elite" for the audience please.

Elite- meaning quarterbacks who consistently play at an efficient level

[Scalaid6]

Ben is a WINNER because he plays on the Steelers. If Ben was on the Lions he would be as Steve Young was on the Buccaneers- A loser

Ahhh yes, and if Peyton Manning was on the Lions . . .he would be?????? Hell, he chokes in the biggest games with the Colts offense.

Son, it's one thing to have opinions, it's another to think every one of your opinions is fact. It doesn't make you smart, just an arrogant little prick.

Uh the Colts WERE the Lions PRE MANNING how do you think they got the BEST qb in the draft?

[Scalaid6]

Yes it is. Why do you think he had a stormy relationship with Cowher?

Why do you think he hated Whisenhunt?

Ben had success early, this was the biggest hit to his development. He felt he didnt need to study as he told Cowher "But were winning coach"

He was the 1st to leave and the last to show up (Ask Joey Porter)

Cowher told him not to ride the new bike without a helmet. Did Ben listen? Even after the accident he was seen riding the bike WITHOUT A HELMET (In fact gave the camera a middle finger)

This season Tomlin tells him to take less hits or he is taking him out, what was his answer? "I only know how to play one way coach"

Its OBVIOUS that Ben is not coachable. No opinion

Since you are stating a fact prove it. How does your gibberish prove he is "uncoachable" ??

Tell me what is "uncoachable" according to you???

Jamarcus Russell is "uncoachable" not Ben.

I already proved it. If that is not acceptable to you then nothing will be.

[Oviedo]

I agree. Are we talking "Fantasy Football" elite?

Or are we talking "being able to do whatever it takes to win" elite?

I'll take the latter.

Does it matter? Ben fails in both questions.

Ben has done "whatever it takes to win" in 1 SB and even that SB isn't won if not for a 14 point swing provided by James Harrison and the defense. The first SB he played like hot garbage. The last one he gave away with mistakes.

So I guess getting a team to 2 Super Bowls and consistent double digit win regular seasons don't mean anything. If how you perform in the Super Bowl is the metric then:
-Peyton Manning is not elite
-Brady ceased to be elite when he lost to the Giants because he has lost every play off game since
-Brees is clearly not elite because he couldn't even beat the Seahawks in the play-offs

By your standard the only elite QB in the NFL is Rodgers. Or it could just be another poor attempt to find fault in Ben with unrealistic and undefinable standards

[siss]

I believe scailaid posts over on the scout forums. He criticizes Ben for everything. Ben can do no right in this mans eyes. We get it, you don't like him, but your negative obsession is kinda sad. It takes way more effort to hate someone than it does to ignore someone. I think he gets off on criticizing Ben. So while you are allowed to have an opinion, I advice those who have an IQ above 10 to ignore this troll.

[Oviedo]

Dont get me wrong, Ben has all the physical tools that he needs, he is just lacking the mental tools to be considered "elite".

Define "elite" for the audience please.

Elite- meaning quarterbacks who consistently play at an efficient level

"Efficient level"?????? Can you define and provide clear unambiguous metrics???

Ben has gotten his team to two Super Bowls in 4 years. More than any other QB in the NFL. Clearly not "efficient."

Ben has led his team to win the majority of the AFC North titles since he has come into the league. Clearly not "efficient."

Ben has led his team to double digit wins the majority of the seasons since he became the starting QB in a league that is all about parity. Clearly not "efficient."

I anxiously await your empiricial metrics and how the "real elite" QB match up to them.

[siss]

Dont get me wrong, Ben has all the physical tools that he needs, he is just lacking the mental tools to be considered "elite".

Define "elite" for the audience please.

Elite- meaning quarterbacks who consistently play at an efficient level

"Efficient level"?????? Can you define and provide clear unambiguous metrics???

Ben has gotten his team to two Super Bowls in 4 years. More than any other QB in the NFL. Clearly not "efficient."

Ben has led his team to win the majority of the AFC North titles since he has come into the league. Clearly not "efficient."

Ben has led his team to double digit wins the majority of the seasons since he became the starting QB in a league that is all about parity. Clearly not "efficient."

I anxiously await your empiricial metrics and how the "real elite" QB match up to them.

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Don't feed the troll, it only encourages them. I know your right, most of this web site knows you are right. Perhaps this guy would be better off cheering on the Stains since he can't appreciate his team and the franchise QB we have.

[Scalaid6]

I reviewed the "Scary how good Ben could be thread" and I agree with the OP

IF Ben would dedicate himself to his craft he would be unstoppable. But he wont.

Ben is uncoachable ("I only know how to play one way coach") and that is why he hasnt evolved as a quarterback.

Dont get me wrong, Ben has all the physical tools that he needs, he is just lacking the mental tools to be considered "elite".

Would Ben go to 3 Super Bowls on any other team but the Steelers? I dont think so. I dont think Ben leads the PATS to 3 Super Bowls, he just is not efficeint enough or consistent enough.

I respect what Crash has done and said but for those of you that know me from other Steeler sites, you will soon see that Crash is NO MATCH for me in terms of evaluating a quarterback.

I could be wrong. Time will tell.

1. "If Ben would dedicate himself to his craft he would be unstoppable. But he wont."
You have zero idea how much time he puts in the film room or on the practice field. You have no clue as to what his ceiling is, or what deficiencies in his game are preventing him from reaching it.

2. "Ben is uncoachable ("I only know how to play one way coach") and that is why he hasnt evolved as a quarterback."
Anyone who has watched Ben Roethlisberger, knows that he has evolved as a quarterback. He's gone from universally looked at as a game manager who shouldn't attempt more than 25 passes in a game to universally looked at as a top-five quarterback, who is maybe the most clutch in the game.

3."Dont get me wrong, Ben has all the physical tools that he needs, he is just lacking the mental tools to be considered "elite".
Again, what are you basing this on? Is he consistently making the wrong reads or not finding the open man? Is he staring down his primary read and not going through his progressions? Does he lack a recognition of where the pressure is coming from? Just what are these "mental" deficiencies in his game? He threw for only 5 picks this season and made a marked improvement in getting rid of the ball more quickly.

4. "Would Ben go to 3 Super Bowls on any other team but the Steelers? I dont think so. I dont think Ben leads the PATS to 3 Super Bowls, he just is not efficeint enough or consistent enough."

He was the highest rated 4th quarter QB in the league and he had a 97 BQ rating or above for the 5th time in his seven seasons. As far as efficiency, he has the 8th highest career QB rating in league history and owns the 4th highest winning percentage in league history.

5. "I respect what Crash has done and said but for those of you that know me from other Steeler sites, you will soon see that Crash is NO MATCH for me in terms of evaluating a quarterback."

After such an insightful analysis of our quarterback, I am definitely left wondering where you obtained this incredible skill for evaluating quarterbacks. Did you play the position at recess?

Yes, I'm sure that Ben's game has plenty of room for improvement. However, your opinion is riddled with speculation, conjecture, and generalizations that have little basis in fact. The title of this thread leaves me to believe that you have some type of agenda or bias in regards to Roethlisberger.

The anti-Crash perhaps?

Regardless, this is the first post I've seen from you and it has left me with the impression that you will be bringing little to the table. Welcome.

1. When have you EVER heard of Ben getting together after practice and putting in extra time with the receivers? NAME ONE TIME PLEASE. According to BEN ROETHLISBERS in a interview with he admitted to not watching as much film as Manning (That works for HIm but I watch my share of film, not at much as him but I would rather looking at an opposing teams shell defenses in practice, that works for me" So I got it from BEN sir.

2. A clutch Qb is clutch ANYWHERE. I think Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers would be good no matter what team they are on. Ben would suck on the Lions, Browns, Raiders, Bengals etc Ben needs a defense to get him over the hump. The PRIMARY reason that we are elite as a team is our DEFENSE and not our offense or qb.

3. The mental deficiencies are OBVIOUS if you know the qb position. Ben has horrible pre snap reads (lack of preparation). Do you notice how he gives the Defense an decisive advantage on ALMOST EVERY PLAY. How do you ask? He takes SO LONG to make his pre snap read that he lets the play clock run down inside :05 on almost every play. How can this benefit the offense? The defenders can see the clock and time the snap, therefore getting a better jump. Ben rarely makes audibles, he is a slave to the called play. This shows lack of awareness. In the Super Bowl Clay is calling out the play. Ben should realize that they know it and audible it to another play, common sense. Ben RARELY utilizes the sight adjustment rule. I have been to many quarterback clinics and camps and Ben Roethlisberger is the poster child of what NOT TO DO at quarteback.

4. Again, he has a high WINNIGN pct because he is on the STEELERS. Ben has had ONLY 2 seasons with a passer rating over 100. He has thrown for 30 TDs only one time in his career. The offense habitually STINKS in the redzone. Why? Because Ben is slow to process the information. Too bad that passer rating that you HOMERS always site doesnt include drive stoppers like fumbles and sacks. The stat is FLAWED.

5. Agenda? Perhaps. That agenda would be that I want my offense to play as well as my defense. We expect excellence from Arians, Tomlin, Oline, DB's and STs but when it comes to Ben we can settle for good play not great play. Ben had a 30 rating in the AFCCG but that was CLUTCH because we won. OK

[calmkiller]

Love all the trolls recently. Maybe its just one with multiple names...

[Scalaid6]

Dont get me wrong, Ben has all the physical tools that he needs, he is just lacking the mental tools to be considered "elite".

Define "elite" for the audience please.

Elite- meaning quarterbacks who consistently play at an efficient level

"Efficient level"?????? Can you define and provide clear unambiguous metrics???

Ben has gotten his team to two Super Bowls in 4 years. More than any other QB in the NFL. Clearly not "efficient."

Ben has led his team to win the majority of the AFC North titles since he has come into the league. Clearly not "efficient."

Ben has led his team to double digit wins the majority of the seasons since he became the starting QB in a league that is all about parity. Clearly not "efficient."

I anxiously await your empiricial metrics and how the "real elite" QB match up to them.

The DEFENSE got them to the SB in 08 and the RUNNING GAME IN 05 (You attribute that to Ben? WOW)

Ben has ONE team MVP in 7 seasons. That tells me that his OWN TEAM doesnt think he is that big of a factor.

PLEASE LIST 4 GAMES IN A ROW BY BEN ROETHLISBERGER WHERE HE HAS PRODUCED ELITE STATS.

I'LL WAIT