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Thread: Surprise Cuts

  1. #11
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    Re: Surprise Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    For the love of Pete, is long snapping that freaking difficult that it can't b e learned by a player trying to make a roster? Are you telling me that a backup lineman, third string TE, backup LB can't learn how to do this extremely difficult skill?

    I find it hard to believe that it's such an art form or skill that no one except a player that does it every day can learn the skill or art.

    The James Harrison faux pas was a lack of preparation by the coaching staff, not the fact that long snapping is so difficult to perform.

    Pappy
    Stan Savarn had Jeff Reed on his program a couple of seasons ago and they talked about this very thing. Reed said they experimented with position players but it never worked. The big issue was timing....especially on field goals and PAT's. He said high snaps, low snaps, placement of the laces (laces out!), etc. kills the timing and usually results in failed attempts.

    I for one hate losing games because of special teams, so I don't have a problem with reserving a spot for a long snapper. If that means we don't keep 15 TE's on the active roster, so be it.

  2. #12
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    Re: Surprise Cuts

    We could only hope that Hartwig gets cut. He and Essex were the worst, not opinion FACT, at their respective positions. There will be a slight learning curve for all the O-line with Kugler in his first year. No time like the present to start the young guys. The playbook will most likely be limited early on as well with a backup QB. Work thru the bumps early, work on chemistry and make a late push with Ben.
    How the mighty have fallen!?

  3. #13

    Re: Surprise Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    For the love of Pete, is long snapping that freaking difficult that it can't b e learned by a player trying to make a roster? Are you telling me that a backup lineman, third string TE, backup LB can't learn how to do this extremely difficult skill?

    I find it hard to believe that it's such an art form or skill that no one except a player that does it every day can learn the skill or art.

    Pappy

    It is hard to believe, but somehow, it is true nonetheless...
    I want gay married couples to be able to protect their marijuana plants with guns.

  4. #14

    Re: Surprise Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelBucks
    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    For the love of Pete, is long snapping that freaking difficult that it can't b e learned by a player trying to make a roster? Are you telling me that a backup lineman, third string TE, backup LB can't learn how to do this extremely difficult skill?

    I find it hard to believe that it's such an art form or skill that no one except a player that does it every day can learn the skill or art.

    The James Harrison faux pas was a lack of preparation by the coaching staff, not the fact that long snapping is so difficult to perform.

    Pappy
    Stan Savarn had Jeff Reed on his program a couple of seasons ago and they talked about this very thing. Reed said they EXPERIMENTED with position players but it never worked. The big issue was timing....especially on field goals and PAT's. He said high snaps, low snaps, placement of the laces (laces out!), etc. kills the timing and usually results in failed attempts.

    I for one hate losing games because of special teams, so I don't have a problem with reserving a spot for a long snapper. If that means we don't keep 15 TE's on the active roster, so be it.
    I'm not disputing the importance, or even the difficulty of long snapping. I'm disputing the notion that only a few naturally gifted athletes on earth are able to accomplish this rare skill. Long snapping is a skill. It can be taught. It can be learned. Greg Warren was not "born" a long snapper. He had to learn it just like anyone else. We keep 4-5 back up O-Lineman every year. You can't tell me that if each of those guys practiced long snapping 3 hours per day, with coaching, one of them would not emerge/develop into an adequate option. That is part of coaching, evaluation before you draft players, and training them after you draft players. When they say "experimented" they mean test out a couple players and see if they're naturally good at it, if not, forget it. I'm saying put some "Peyton Manning-like" practice into your skillset and save the team a roster spot.

  5. #15

    Re: Surprise Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by NCSteeler
    I think Gay will stick around at nickel. The may be switching one of the other corners to safety. I also think with a renewed emphasis on the run McHugh will stick, he is a much better blocker then Spaeth.

    I also think if the season go poorly Hartwig will finish the year on the bench.
    I'm not saying you're wrong, Gay may very well make the team, but my point is two fold...

    1) What is Gay's future? I don't think he is or ever will be starter material. He will be a perenial back-up, nickle/dime corner. He lost his starting job because, quite frankly, he sucks. So why keep a player that sucks? Just because you have no better option? No. Go out and get a better option (which is what we did in the last two drafts).

    2) Are you willing to give up a potential like Butler to keep Gay? I am not. I would rather gamble on a tall strong fast kid like Butler and let him go through the growing pains/learning curve than watching Gay get beat year after year, hoping that he magically improves.

  6. #16

    Re: Surprise Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.
    Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

    Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

    It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

    Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.
    I agree that it's not a position you want to screw around with. Harrison taught us that. My question is... What are Hills, Urbik, Essex, Legursky, Foster, etc. doing in their free time? Don't tell me they're too sore on Sunday's, Monday's, and Tuesday's not to practice 4-5 hours long snapping a day. That should be a job requirement, just like lifting weights. You're in the frickin' NFL. Get a little hungry.

  7. #17

    Re: Surprise Cuts

    [quote="ramblinjim"]Suprise Cuts:


    2.) Sonny Harris - Not exactly some crazy massive surprise here. Eason stays because he knows the system and he's reasonably dependable. I'm thinking that Doug Worthington plays good ball in the pre-season and gets the nod over Harris whom we all thought so highly last year.


    See that's the whole reason our lines are in this situation. We keep guys with very little athletic ability or upside starter potential because they "know the system and are reasonably dependable". I realize that every team must have role players but keep the role players who have upside an athleticism who could potentially start one day (ex. Keisel, Harrison) and get rid of the Kirshke, Eason, Hoke crew. In my opinion they should take a serious look at keeping Worthington over Eason.

  8. #18
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    Re: Surprise Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by StarSpangledSteeler
    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.
    Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

    Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

    It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

    Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.
    I agree that it's not a position you want to screw around with. Harrison taught us that. My question is... What are Hills, Urbik, Essex, Legursky, Foster, etc. doing in their free time? Don't tell me they're too sore on Sunday's, Monday's, and Tuesday's not to practice 4-5 hours long snapping a day. That should be a job requirement, just like lifting weights. You're in the frickin' NFL. Get a little hungry.
    Snapping isn't easy. I'd suggest trying it. It's a skill. It's hard to get a fast spiral on a snap and put the laces in the right place. The Olinemen aren't typically skilled with handling a football.

    Someone like Hines Ward or ARE or Ben would probably be the most likely to be able to snap it with speed and accuracy, but they aren't gonna risk one of those skill players to do it.

    The right size/skill player would likely be a TE. Someone like McHugh or Miller should give it a whirl.

    One of the centers who handles the ball should try it. Hartwig, Pouncey, Legursky, Urbik, but I'm sure the Steelers thought of it and tried it and these guys just can't do it.

    I had a friend that could do it really well in high school. Most guys couldn't even get a slow spiral in the vicinity of where it needed to go.

  9. #19

    Re: Surprise Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by StarSpangledSteeler
    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.
    Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

    Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

    It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

    Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.
    I agree that it's not a position you want to screw around with. Harrison taught us that. My question is... What are Hills, Urbik, Essex, Legursky, Foster, etc. doing in their free time? Don't tell me they're too sore on Sunday's, Monday's, and Tuesday's not to practice 4-5 hours long snapping a day. That should be a job requirement, just like lifting weights. You're in the frickin' NFL. Get a little hungry.
    They're practicing their O line positions in the event injury means they have to play. Back ups also have to play on the scout team. So in their "free time" our defense is beating the daylights out of them.

  10. #20
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    Re: Surprise Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by cruzer8
    Quote Originally Posted by StarSpangledSteeler
    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Off the top of my head I can't think of any teams that use a starting O lineman as the long snapper.
    Yup. The Giants have used players from other positions (linebacker Zak DeOssie and d-lineman Jay Alford) but every other team has a designated long snapper.

    Think of how many times we kick field goals, PAT's, and punt during the year. Last year, those numbers were 31, 41, and 72, respectively. That is 144 opportunities in which a bad snap that sails over the holder or punter's head can be disasterous.

    It is worth the roster spot to have a guy who gets it there on target every time, and gets it there with enough velocity that oncoming rushers don't have time to get into our backfield to block the kick.

    Face it, folks...long snappers are valuable. If the James Harrison experiment didn't leave a last impression on you regarding the worth of a solid long snapper, I don't know what to tell you.
    I agree that it's not a position you want to screw around with. Harrison taught us that. My question is... What are Hills, Urbik, Essex, Legursky, Foster, etc. doing in their free time? Don't tell me they're too sore on Sunday's, Monday's, and Tuesday's not to practice 4-5 hours long snapping a day. That should be a job requirement, just like lifting weights. You're in the frickin' NFL. Get a little hungry.
    They're practicing their O line positions in the event injury means they have to play. Back ups also have to play on the scout team. So in their "free time" our defense is beating the daylights out of them.
    Not only their positions, but several others to please Coach Positional Flexibility

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