A question for the defenders

[feltdizz]

I will still cheer Ben on the field regardless of all the talk and media blitz against him but off the field I can't vouch for him.

My question for those who think Ben is 100% clean and is being lynched by the media. Just wondering if this is due to honestly not being able to cheer him if he is the bar bully he is reported to he regarding women? I ask this because I read about how it was never established he touched her, he isn't responsible for checking her ID, he was never in the bathroom with her, he never said sex so the contact was of the friendly nature... The cop is resigning because he wants to open a school for the blind...

Its the stupid sh!t being said that makes me wonder if some fans are turning this latest episode into a G rated Pixar Cartoon when we know it's more like a NC 17 straight to DVD short film.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

I will still cheer Ben on the field regardless of all the talk and media blitz against him but off the field I can't vouch for him.

My question for those who think Ben is 100% clean and is being lynched by the media. Just wondering if this is due to honestly not being able to cheer him if he is the bar bully he is reported to he regarding women? I ask this because I read about how it was never established he touched her, he isn't responsible for checking her ID, he was never in the bathroom with her, he never said sex so the contact was of the friendly nature... The cop is resigning because he wants to open a school for the blind...

Its the stupid sh!t being said that makes me wonder if some fans are turning this latest episode into a G rated Pixar Cartoon when we know it's more like a NC 17 straight to DVD short film.

I guess I shouldn't be answering this, because I don't think of myself as a Ben "defender". What bothers me is that witness statements from the accuser's friends obtained hours after the fact are being reported as if they were fact. So, if I'm defending anything, it is what I perceive to be an assault on the truth.

If the witness statements were true, and if there were no other contradictory sides to the story, it would be a horrible tragedy that took place that night, and severe penalties on Ben should be imposed.

But there are always two or more sides to every story. As I've said in another post, I feel it's very likely that whatever sexual activity took place was consensual. I also have a pretty good suspicion that there was illegal conspiracy among all the DTF chicks in coordinating their statements.

In a big way I hope this DOES go to civil trial. Then all the Facebook pages, texts, cell phone messages, and phone calls among the DTF chicks can be subpoenaed, and the DTFers can be cross-examined.

Ben can't look any worse than he does now as a result of a civil trial - he's already "guilty" of rape in the public's eye. I think he would come out looking better at the end of a civil trial - not a rapist, just immature and boorish ( is a 28 year old doing cruising in a college bar?).

My

[birtikidis]

I'm not a defender or an antagonist. I simply believe that everyone is reacting too soon. we don't know all the facts. none of the antagonists have waited to hear from ben. and until the team and his lawyer tell him to talk he won't.
my philosophy as a coach has always been, I'd rather lose with winners then win with losers. and I'll always stick to that. but I wont convict him after just listening to NFLN and ESPN. I need more than that

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

I'm not a defender or an antagonist. I simply believe that everyone is reacting too soon. we don't know all the facts. none of the antagonists have waited to hear from ben. and until the team and his lawyer tell him to talk he won't.
my philosophy as a coach has always been, I'd rather lose with winners then win with losers. and I'll always stick to that. but I wont convict him after just listening to NFLN and ESPN. I need more than that

I have been asked by management to warn you that reason and rationality are not to be tolerated on this board, especially regarding this topic. This is your 1st and final warning!!

BTW - is the NFLN really spewing the same stuff as ESPN, etc.? That's disturbing in a big way, as (like the Chinese Communist "Press") they don't say anything that isn't Goodell-Party approved ...

[birtikidis]

I'm not a defender or an antagonist. I simply believe that everyone is reacting too soon. we don't know all the facts. none of the antagonists have waited to hear from ben. and until the team and his lawyer tell him to talk he won't.
my philosophy as a coach has always been, I'd rather lose with winners then win with losers. and I'll always stick to that. but I wont convict him after just listening to NFLN and ESPN. I need more than that

I have been asked by management to warn you that reason and rationality are not to be tolerated on this board, especially regarding this topic. This is your 1st and final warning!!

BTW - is the NFLN really spewing the same stuff as ESPN, etc.? That's disturbing in a big way, as (like the Chinese Communist "Press") they don't say anything that isn't Goodell-Party approved ...

yea it's pretty much the same stuff. I've stopped listening the past two days. Confora is on a mission to make everyone think that the steelers want to get rid of ben

[Sugar]

I will still cheer Ben on the field regardless of all the talk and media blitz against him but off the field I can't vouch for him.

My question for those who think Ben is 100% clean and is being lynched by the media. Just wondering if this is due to honestly not being able to cheer him if he is the bar bully he is reported to he regarding women? I ask this because I read about how it was never established he touched her, he isn't responsible for checking her ID, he was never in the bathroom with her, he never said sex so the contact was of the friendly nature... The cop is resigning because he wants to open a school for the blind...

Its the stupid sh!t being said that makes me wonder if some fans are turning this latest episode into a G rated Pixar Cartoon when we know it's more like a NC 17 straight to DVD short film.

I have no idea what happened that night and I don't have some deep-seeded need for Ben to be "clean." We have versions of the story from the accuser but I really have no reason to believe her. She has nothing to corroborate her story- no video, no eyewitness testimony, no physical evidence, no nothing but her accusation. That's not enough for me. The authorities looked into it and they didn't have enough to actually bring a charge or anything.

Do I care if Ben goes chasing tail in a "college bar"- nope. It doesn't matter to me. He's got to deal with God in regard to his fornication, but she is of legal age. Heck, my Grandfather (RIP) was 26 when he married my 16 year old grandmother so I guess that makes him some kind of perv to many on this board. If Ben did something that was purely socially offensive, but not illegal I just don't care.

I'm more troubled by the Steeler Nation. Loyalty went out the window with nothing more than the baseless accusations of a drunk sorority girl. I have four sisters and a daughter and I want to protect girls as much as anybody. That said there is just no reason to believe her.

[BURGH86STEEL]

I will still cheer Ben on the field regardless of all the talk and media blitz against him but off the field I can't vouch for him.

My question for those who think Ben is 100% clean and is being lynched by the media. Just wondering if this is due to honestly not being able to cheer him if he is the bar bully he is reported to he regarding women? I ask this because I read about how it was never established he touched her, he isn't responsible for checking her ID, he was never in the bathroom with her, he never said sex so the contact was of the friendly nature... The cop is resigning because he wants to open a school for the blind...

Its the stupid sh!t being said that makes me wonder if some fans are turning this latest episode into a G rated Pixar Cartoon when we know it's more like a NC 17 straight to DVD short film.

I have no idea what happened that night and I don't have some deep-seeded need for Ben to be "clean." We have versions of the story from the accuser but I really have no reason to believe her. She has nothing to corroborate her story- no video, no eyewitness testimony, no physical evidence, no nothing but her accusation. That's not enough for me. The authorities looked into it and they didn't have enough to actually bring a charge or anything.

Do I care if Ben goes chasing tail in a "college bar"- nope. It doesn't matter to me. He's got to deal with God in regard to his fornication, but she is of legal age. Heck, my Grandfather (RIP) was 26 when he married my 16 year old grandmother so I guess that makes him some kind of perv to many on this board. If Ben did something that was purely socially offensive, but not illegal I just don't care.

I'm more troubled by the Steeler Nation. Loyalty went out the window with nothing more than the baseless accusations of a drunk sorority girl. I have four sisters and a daughter and I want to protect girls as much as anybody. That said there is just no reason to believe her.

Unfortunately Sugar, we live in a world where perception matters. Again, this is more then about "chasing tail". Ben had control over the entire situation. He can chase all the tail he wants. He needs to be more careful about the tail he chases because he is Ben Rothelisberger. The location also might help his cause. He has not shown good judgement in the tail he chased up to this point. He is not an unknown college kid any more. There are responsibilities that come with Ben's name now. The NFL, organization, and thousands of fans believe that he needs to live up to being a high profile figure. You may not see it that way. You know what, he will no longer be a Steeler if he can't live up to those standards. If he continues down the same path, he won't have a career in the NFL. It is a privilege to play in the NFL.

Ben will be suspended but it won't end there for many fans or possibly for the organization.

Thousands of Steelers fans live outside of Pittsburgh. I am one of those fans. I live in Philadelphia. Anyone who lives in Philly knows a lot of Eagles fans don't have scruples. I know how to tune out the morons and idiots. I know how to properly respond to fans opinions. There are many fans that can deal with ridicule and harassment of other fans. There are fans out there that can't stand or deal with the ridicule and harassment. There may be many bar fights or negative behavior as a result. I feel for the children that have to put up with the ridicule/harassment of other fans. It is not right but there are people like that out in this world.

The organization may stand to lose millions of dollars in business as a result. It will also lead some people to think the organization is no different then any other. Holmes was childish and deserved to be traded. Many people think Ben is in the same boat as Holmes. It is a contradiction to trade Holmes and keep Ben? I don't feel this way but many people do.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

I will still cheer Ben on the field regardless of all the talk and media blitz against him but off the field I can't vouch for him.

My question for those who think Ben is 100% clean and is being lynched by the media. Just wondering if this is due to honestly not being able to cheer him if he is the bar bully he is reported to he regarding women? I ask this because I read about how it was never established he touched her, he isn't responsible for checking her ID, he was never in the bathroom with her, he never said sex so the contact was of the friendly nature... The cop is resigning because he wants to open a school for the blind...

Its the stupid sh!t being said that makes me wonder if some fans are turning this latest episode into a G rated Pixar Cartoon when we know it's more like a NC 17 straight to DVD short film.

I have no idea what happened that night and I don't have some deep-seeded need for Ben to be "clean." We have versions of the story from the accuser but I really have no reason to believe her. She has nothing to corroborate her story- no video, no eyewitness testimony, no physical evidence, no nothing but her accusation. That's not enough for me. The authorities looked into it and they didn't have enough to actually bring a charge or anything.

Do I care if Ben goes chasing tail in a "college bar"- nope. It doesn't matter to me. He's got to deal with God in regard to his fornication, but she is of legal age. Heck, my Grandfather (RIP) was 26 when he married my 16 year old grandmother so I guess that makes him some kind of perv to many on this board. If Ben did something that was purely socially offensive, but not illegal I just don't care.

I'm more troubled by the Steeler Nation. Loyalty went out the window with nothing more than the baseless accusations of a drunk sorority girl. I have four sisters and a daughter and I want to protect girls as much as anybody. That said there is just no reason to believe her.

Unfortunately Sugar, we live in a world where perception matters. Again, this is more then about "chasing tail". Ben had control over the entire situation. He can chase all the tail he wants. He needs to be more careful about the tail he chases because he is Ben Rothelisberger. The location also might help his cause. He has not shown good judgement in the tail he chased up to this point. He is not an unknown college kid any more. There are responsibilities that come with Ben's name now. The NFL, organization, and thousands of fans believe that he needs to live up to being a high profile figure. You may not see it that way. You know what, he will no longer be a Steeler if he can't live up to those standards. If he continues down the same path, he won't have a career in the NFL. It is a privilege to play in the NFL.

Ben will be suspended but it won't end there for many fans or possibly for the organization.

Thousands of Steelers fans live outside of Pittsburgh. I am one of those fans. I live in Philadelphia. Anyone who lives in Philly knows a lot of Eagles fans don't have scruples. I know how to tune out the morons and idiots. I know how to properly respond to fans opinions. There are many fans that can deal with ridicule and harassment of other fans. There are fans out there that can't stand or deal with the ridicule and harassment. There may be many bar fights or negative behavior as a result. I feel for the children that have to put up with the ridicule/harassment of other fans. It is not right but there are people like that out in this world.

The organization may stand to lose millions of dollars in business as a result. It will also lead some people to think the organization is no different then any other. Holmes was childish and deserved to be traded. Many people think Ben is in the same boat as Holmes. It is a contradiction to trade Holmes and keep Ben? I don't feel this way but many people do.

Burgh86, many valid points there, and easy to read, thanks!

I think those fans that insist that Ben needs to be traded because Holmes was traded need to consider that the situations are quite different, with Holmes having gotten arrested and even found guilty on multiple occasions. Additionally, he failed the "show me remorse" test. I think Ben hasn't quite yet, though he will have if he fubars again.

And I think the Steelers should be well protected against charges of racism (Ben treatment vs Holmes treatment) when one considers James Harrison's treatment (didn't he admit to choking his child's mother?).

But - you're right - it's more emotional than logical. So, it's pretty tough on Ben and the Steelers right now. I have a feeling that over the weeks, if it doesn't get worse for Ben because of new revelations, it will get better!

(I admit it, that's stolen from the weather forecaster's training manual, fall back forecast #14c: "Weather will improve later this week, unless it doesn't." !).

[brothervad]

Sugar,

I am curious, why does the Steeler Nation have to blindly accept Ben's version? It's a person's perogative to question and have an opinion.

I have already stated in other threads that I don't know what happened that night.

People say that the DA not bringing charges means that he is all in the clear.

Did you listen to the DA? It was very clear from what was amassed that he couldn't bring a case, but you could tell that he WANTED to be able to bring a case.

I don't back a guy just because he can throw the ball and win Super Bowls. If that is your criteria then fine, but a lot of people have different criteria.

I don't have a problem with your support for Ben, but please quit thinking that you and your bretheren have the insight to Ben or how the Nation should or should not support someone.

At a minimum there are some serious character quesitons surrounding BB. We as fans have every right to ? and make our own decision about Ben.

The Nation is still strong...just some of us have serious questions surrounding one of the guys who is currently wearing the team's colors.

I apologize if you take this the wrong way, but I get sick of the thought police...you have a right to rant about it, but I have a right to rant about your rant

brothervad

PS one other thing...if the Steelers do trade Ben will you quit supporting the Steelers? My bet in no...you will be mad, but guess what you are a Steeler fan. And many years from now when Ben is long gone from the game you will still be a Steeler fan (more than likely)

please try to separate a Steeler fan from being a Ben fan. They are very different.

[feltdizz]

Great points being made....

Brothervad I think you hit the nail on the head.

My frustration with Ben is the demand for our "benefit of the doubt" so to speak the last few off seasons.

It's so much easier to convince me Ben is a good guy when he isn't in the news. When he is donating time to special needs kids and helping police officers I'm all for it.

When he is making stupid decisions and putting the team and his future at risk how can fans expect the Nation to stand up for him time and time again?

The guy is a great athlete.. but so is Ron Artest and PacMan. I just wonder how many people would defend Carson Palmer or give him the benefit of the doubt if he had Ben's track record.