I feel bad for Art Jr.

[stlrz d]

I have kept relatively quiet about this whole ordeal because truth is I have no belief that anyone has the truth on this...the only people that really know is Ben & the girl who were in that bathroom that night.


Let me say the following and be done with it:

1) I am not a Ben hater
2) I am not a Ben Fan -- I am a Steelers fan and that is all I am

I don't care about the indictment, the potential for Civil action or Ben's eventual vindication. If that happens, I will refer to the first paragraph above....only 2 people really know what truly happened that night.

Morally, it comes down to a 2 letter word. If she uttered at anytime..."No"...then it's Rape. Maybe not from legal statute, but morally.

If those were uttered as she claimed then that is what it is...since I can't prove it I will not claim that it is the fact.

But it is that close from separating what this man is and is not....

Say what you will...I don't care...I know a girl who was raped and tried to commit suicide because of it. If Ben did that I want him gone...since I can't provie it I will not speak of this any further.

But let's just say I won't talk much about his performance moving forward either. If they win, they win as a team and I will be happy. If they lose, they lose as a team and will lament it.

But my days of talking about Ben are over...because I really don't know if that two letter word was or was not uttered and I can't be as open minded as some on the board.
His football prowess and success seems a lot less important to me anymore and that is sad to me.

brothervad

She was asked that night if she was raped and she said no. It's in the police report.

[Lebsteel]

I have kept relatively quiet about this whole ordeal because truth is I have no belief that anyone has the truth on this...the only people that really know is Ben & the girl who were in that bathroom that night.


Let me say the following and be done with it:

1) I am not a Ben hater
2) I am not a Ben Fan -- I am a Steelers fan and that is all I am

I don't care about the indictment, the potential for Civil action or Ben's eventual vindication. If that happens, I will refer to the first paragraph above....only 2 people really know what truly happened that night.

Morally, it comes down to a 2 letter word. If she uttered at anytime..."No"...then it's Rape. Maybe not from legal statute, but morally.

If those were uttered as she claimed then that is what it is...since I can't prove it I will not claim that it is the fact.

But it is that close from separating what this man is and is not....

Say what you will...I don't care...I know a girl who was raped and tried to commit suicide because of it. If Ben did that I want him gone...since I can't provie it I will not speak of this any further.

But let's just say I won't talk much about his performance moving forward either. If they win, they win as a team and I will be happy. If they lose, they lose as a team and will lament it.

But my days of talking about Ben are over...because I really don't know if that two letter word was or was not uttered and I can't be as open minded as some on the board.
His football prowess and success seems a lot less important to me anymore and that is sad to me.

brothervad

She was asked that night if she was raped and she said no. It's in the police report.

D, I wish that were true. Read the whole report...maybe she fabricated the police report, that is certainly a possibility. But also at the hospital she allegedly said that "a boy kind of raped me."

Face it...Ben is sleazy for even trying to make out with a 20 year old girl who was so drunk she didn't know what she was doing...how do you justify Ben doing that?

[brothervad]

I have kept relatively quiet about this whole ordeal because truth is I have no belief that anyone has the truth on this...the only people that really know is Ben & the girl who were in that bathroom that night.


Let me say the following and be done with it:

1) I am not a Ben hater
2) I am not a Ben Fan -- I am a Steelers fan and that is all I am

I don't care about the indictment, the potential for Civil action or Ben's eventual vindication. If that happens, I will refer to the first paragraph above....only 2 people really know what truly happened that night.

Morally, it comes down to a 2 letter word. If she uttered at anytime..."No"...then it's Rape. Maybe not from legal statute, but morally.

If those were uttered as she claimed then that is what it is...since I can't prove it I will not claim that it is the fact.

But it is that close from separating what this man is and is not....

Say what you will...I don't care...I know a girl who was raped and tried to commit suicide because of it. If Ben did that I want him gone...since I can't provie it I will not speak of this any further.

But let's just say I won't talk much about his performance moving forward either. If they win, they win as a team and I will be happy. If they lose, they lose as a team and will lament it.

But my days of talking about Ben are over...because I really don't know if that two letter word was or was not uttered and I can't be as open minded as some on the board.
His football prowess and success seems a lot less important to me anymore and that is sad to me.

brothervad

She was asked that night if she was raped and she said no. It's in the police report.

I know how you feel about this...again read my post...you don't know what happened...if she said no it's rape.

per the details given by the documents released even the Police officer who resigned today had the following discussion with Ben:

"We have a problem. This drunken bitch, drunk off her ass, is accusing Ben of rape," Officer Barravecchio said Sgt. Blash told him. "This pisses me off. Women can do this. It's[bull] but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report. This is BS. She's making [stuff] up."

But let's adopt the position (as it refers to later in the article) that she said that she wasn't raped. How much do you know about sexual assault and/or rape? Do you know that most rape victims are in a state of shock after the event occurs.

You want to believe it wasn't rape and that is fine...my point remains...if she said No at all, at all during the episode...it's rape. It's that close...and I am not asking you to believe it, but to pretend that it isn't that close is denial.

So regardless of what you believe...you have no facts...nor do I...but again re-read my post. It's not about legality...its about morality

I aplogize if this does not jibe with your belief on this...I am not asking you to change your mind. It is merely a statment and an opinion.

Bottomline....she said "No" once...it's rape.

Brothervad

[stlrz d]

I have kept relatively quiet about this whole ordeal because truth is I have no belief that anyone has the truth on this...the only people that really know is Ben & the girl who were in that bathroom that night.


Let me say the following and be done with it:

1) I am not a Ben hater
2) I am not a Ben Fan -- I am a Steelers fan and that is all I am

I don't care about the indictment, the potential for Civil action or Ben's eventual vindication. If that happens, I will refer to the first paragraph above....only 2 people really know what truly happened that night.

Morally, it comes down to a 2 letter word. If she uttered at anytime..."No"...then it's Rape. Maybe not from legal statute, but morally.

If those were uttered as she claimed then that is what it is...since I can't prove it I will not claim that it is the fact.

But it is that close from separating what this man is and is not....

Say what you will...I don't care...I know a girl who was raped and tried to commit suicide because of it. If Ben did that I want him gone...since I can't provie it I will not speak of this any further.

But let's just say I won't talk much about his performance moving forward either. If they win, they win as a team and I will be happy. If they lose, they lose as a team and will lament it.

But my days of talking about Ben are over...because I really don't know if that two letter word was or was not uttered and I can't be as open minded as some on the board.
His football prowess and success seems a lot less important to me anymore and that is sad to me.

brothervad

She was asked that night if she was raped and she said no. It's in the police report.

I know how you feel about this...again read my post...you don't know what happened...if she said no it's rape.

per the details given by the documents released even the Police officer who resigned today had the following discussion with Ben:

"We have a problem. This drunken bitch, drunk off her bad word, is accusing Ben of rape," Officer Barravecchio said Sgt. Blash told him. "This pisses me off. Women can do this. It's[bull] but we've got to do this, we've got to do a report. This is BS. She's making [stuff] up."

But let's adopt the position (as it refers to later in the article) that she said that she wasn't raped. How much do you know about sexual assault and/or rape? Do you know that most rape victims are in a state of shock after the event occurs.

You want to believe it wasn't rape and that is fine...my point remains...if she said No at all, at all during the episode...it's rape. It's that close...and I am not asking you to believe it, but to pretend that it isn't that close is denial.

So regardless of what you believe...you have no facts...nor do I...but again re-read my post. It's not about legality...its about morality

I aplogize if this does not jibe with your belief on this...I am not asking you to change your mind. It is merely a statment and an opinion.

Bottomline....she said "No" once...it's rape.

Brothervad

What she said is in the police report. She said she wasn't raped. The cop's statement leads me to believe that even he knew this was a bunch of BS. You can believe what you want, but she said she wasn't raped.

[brothervad]

Stlrzd,

Where did I say I know/believe?

The fact remains...if she said no, regardless of Police reports...it's rape.

The problem your having is accepting that it's a possibility.

I am saying to you that I don't know, but I am ready to believe it is possible. It is way too close for comfort.

You fail to even consider that rape victims feel embarrased and maybe even be in a state of denial.

She said No and then said she is not sure...from a legal standpoint makes you right...It wasn't rape from a legal standpoint.

All I am trying to say is if she did say no in that bathroom...it's rape. As I said before the girl I knew tried to commit suicide after the rape...she didn't acknowledge it at the beginnning either.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind...I am suggesting this is way way way too close and I feel a lot better being a Steeler fan, not a Ben fan.

I apologize if the potential for rape makes me uneasy, I guess I am just geared differently.

brothervad

[Sugar]

Stlrzd,

Where did I say I know/believe?

The fact remains...if she said no, regardless of Police reports...it's rape.

The problem your having is accepting that it's a possibility.

I am saying to you that I don't know, but I am ready to believe it is possible. It is way too close for comfort.

You fail to even consider that rape victims feel embarrased and maybe even be in a state of denial.

She said No and then said she is not sure...from a legal standpoint makes you right...It wasn't rape from a legal standpoint.

All I am trying to say is if she did say no in that bathroom...it's rape. As I said before the girl I knew tried to commit suicide after the rape...she didn't acknowledge it at the beginnning either.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind...I am suggesting this is way way way too close and I feel a lot better being a Steeler fan, not a Ben fan.

I apologize if the potential for rape makes me uneasy, I guess I am just geared differently.

brothervad

How do we know that she actually said no? Why, from her testimony of course. And why exactly should we believe her? Hmmm... not sure. Oh that's right, I have NO, N-O reason to believe her. She was drunk off her can and couldn't keep her story straight.

[stlrz d]

You're entitled to be whatever kind of fan you want to be. The fact that you keep bringing up something that happened in one instance in your life tells me you're a little too close to the subject to be completely objective.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a man on here who doesn't know a woman who was raped or assaulted. Unfortunately it's something very wide spread. Women react differently to being raped. Some act as your friend did, some report the crime immediately and some are somewhere in-between. You are quite correct that if she said no at any point then it is rape.

But the fact remains, she went to the police and said she was assaulted. She was asked if she was raped and she said no.

[Lebsteel]

You're entitled to be whatever kind of fan you want to be. The fact that you keep bringing up something that happened in one instance in your life tells me you're a little too close to the subject to be completely objective.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a man on here who doesn't know a woman who was raped or assaulted. Unfortunately it's something very wide spread. Women react differently to being raped. Some act as your friend did, some report the crime immediately and some are somewhere in-between. You are quite correct that if she said no at any point then it is rape.

But the fact remains, she went to the police and said she was assaulted. She was asked if she was raped and she said no.

D, in your view, why are the Steelers and the NFL planning to discipline Ben? What exactly did Ben do?

[Sugar]

You're entitled to be whatever kind of fan you want to be. The fact that you keep bringing up something that happened in one instance in your life tells me you're a little too close to the subject to be completely objective.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a man on here who doesn't know a woman who was raped or assaulted. Unfortunately it's something very wide spread. Women react differently to being raped. Some act as your friend did, some report the crime immediately and some are somewhere in-between. You are quite correct that if she said no at any point then it is rape.

But the fact remains, she went to the police and said she was assaulted. She was asked if she was raped and she said no.

D, in your view, why are the Steelers and the NFL planning to discipline Ben? What exactly did Ben do?

I can't speak for D, but, IMO the Steelers and the NFL are embarassed and IF they discipline Ben it will simply be because of public outcry. The man hasn't been charged with anything at all and the allegations that he did things that brought disrepute to the NFL are purely based on specious testimony.

All the "C'mon man- you know he did it's" in the world don't change that fact.

[brothervad]

You're entitled to be whatever kind of fan you want to be. The fact that you keep bringing up something that happened in one instance in your life tells me you're a little too close to the subject to be completely objective.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a man on here who doesn't know a woman who was raped or assaulted. Unfortunately it's something very wide spread. Women react differently to being raped. Some act as your friend did, some report the crime immediately and some are somewhere in-between. You are quite correct that if she said no at any point then it is rape.

But the fact remains, she went to the police and said she was assaulted. She was asked if she was raped and she said no.

Thanks Stlrz D,

I wouldn't call it too close...I don't know this girl anymore and haven't seen here for decades now. But I became a lot more aware of it after that moment.

I think where we are disconnecting here...is that I agree with you legally speaking, I just feel uneasy about the whole thing.

Personally, both you and I would rather be discussing how the Steelers could be reloading for the new season an not this. I apologize that I cannot cleanly break like you and others that if she reported it then it's fine.

Maybe that is my shortcoming to feel the way I do, but I am fine with it.

Regardless of how this plays out we are both Steeler fans first.

brothervad