For all those talking trade

[frankthetank1]

i agree you cant trade ben now. it would be more admirable of the organization if they got ben some help with counseling or something. this has to be a wake up call for ben. he must know that he dodged a bullet. i very much doubt he gets himself into any more trouble. if he does though and is accused of sexual assault for the thrid time there is no way he will still be a steeler. any more eff ups and i am on board with a trade

[ikestops85]

Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

Or do you want to be better than that?

Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..

Sorry to break one of the rules.... FUCKING POST OF THE OFF-SEASON. This higher standard is the hallmark of the franchise. Surely nothing wrong in expecting the idealistic cornerstones that's the foundation of this organization.

Chadman ... way to lay it on the line. I think this organization has already made the choice that it is willing to accept bad behavior in exchange for winning. James Harrison being on the team is proof of that.

I think the Steelers try to do a cost benefit analysis on keeping the player. Get rid of Wilson, the under-achieving receiver and keep Harrison, the stud linebacker. Holmes took more analysis but in the end they didn't figure he would re-sign with us anyway so it would make us look better to get rid of him.

Ben's case though is very different. With Holmes, Harrison, and Wilson we KNOW they did something wrong. None of us KNOWS Ben did anything wrong. We might feel he did or assume he did but we don't know. I have a hard time condemning anyone for bad behavior without knowing they are responsible for it.

So, to get back on topic, how in the hell do you give up a championship winning QB when you don't know he's done wrong? No way do I trade Ben.

Ben might be an idiot but he's our idiot!!

[Shawn]

This organization handles it's business and in the cases of proven wrong doing suspends and lets players go. The problem? No one has proven a crime with Ben.

Not all the time, it doesn't. James Harrison, anyone?

You are right though Shawn, Chadman has done a 180. To a point. If you remember- Chadman's biggest issue was actually with the media, not Ben or his situation.

The issue Chadman now has is that despite not being charged, it would most certainly seem that there was something untoward that happened in Georgia. Lack of evidence, change of heart, secret payments...whatever the reason charges were not laid, you know it in your heart- something was not right.

So this is Chadman's point- if we, or more importantly, the Rooney's, have had enough of the bad behaviour, you can't just ship out Holmes & believe we are sweet again. It would say more to the fans, to the opposition, to the NFL & most importantly to the players in the organisation, if the Steelers take the hard line on it's highest profile player.

I hear ya and know where you are coming from. If I knew Ben was guilty of a crime I would be first wanting to push him out of town. What I know...is something happened that night that didn't look good. Ben knew it, the DA knew it and the Steelers knew it. I don't believe it was rape. I believe it was "consensual" sex with a chick that was too drunk to give consent. I believe Ben paid her to make it go away at the advice of his attorney.

I do not believe Ben to be completely innocent of wrong doing. I don't believe he is a rapist. In my book, he has had all his chances. He will get no more from me. But, at this point I'm not ready to let him go. I hope the Rooneys feel the same.

[Dee Dub]

I have to admit...I am very torn on this. I love Ben...have been a huge supporter of him before day 1. Many here will remember how I was flooding the Trib forum months before he was drafted on why the Steelers should draft. I did the same after wards repeatedly over and over and over saying he should start from day 1. But since the press conference from the D.A. I have have been feeling that maybe too much damage has been done. There is a huge part of me who wants to never get rid of Ben...but there is now a part that thinks maybe...just maybe...it's the best thing for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

And if say a team like the 49ers offered their two (13th and 17th), first round picks...well...that is very tempting.

[proudpittsburgher]

To those making the comparisons I still feel likel there was a difference between Ben/Harrison/Reed and what Holmes did. After their individual transgressions, none of them followed up with the kind of stuff Santonio did. Tweeting that the team was going to trade him, saying nansty stuff like wanting people dead on tweets, etc. Maybe I have some fanboi glasses on, and I will be the first to admit that I hated some of Santonio's "look at me" gestures on the field, but with every one of them, they all shut up after they did what they did, they all made apology statements, etc. Look, I know none of those statemets were worth anything, but they didn;t thumb their noses at the team. Santonio did. Now, if Reed continues to have run-ins with the law/sheets dispensers, well, he'll be gone too. Harrison and Ben the same, but to me, these situations are playing out different, because of the people involved. Just my opinion anyway.

[Lebsteel]

I pretty much agree with Chadman. If Ben is traded...to say the Rams, this scenario, though highly unlikely should be considered:

Rams give us their #1 in 2010 and 2011 and their #2 in 2010. We then trade down to #6 with Seahawks and they give us their #1 next year. So, we draft Eric Berry at #6, Kyle Wilson at #18 and trade #33 (from the Rams) and #52 to say, while we are dreaming, Atlanta who doesn't have a Rd. 2 pick, and draft Pouncey at #19. So, this year we get Berry, Wilson and Pouncey.

Next year we have three #1 picks (Rams, Seahawks and ours). With the 2011 picks we take our future QB, stud OL and DE: Andrew Luck QB Stanford, Gabe Carimi, OT Wisconsin and then Jared Crick, DT Nebraska. A huge fantasy, but even though I don't want to see Roethlisberger go, a scenario like this would definitely help the franchise in the long run...

[steelblood]

Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

Or do you want to be better than that?

Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..

Sorry to break one of the rules.... FUCKING POST OF THE OFF-SEASON. This higher standard is the hallmark of the franchise. Surely nothing wrong in expecting the idealistic cornerstones that's the foundation of this organization.

Chadman ... way to lay it on the line. I think this organization has already made the choice that it is willing to accept bad behavior in exchange for winning. James Harrison being on the team is proof of that.

I think the Steelers try to do a cost benefit analysis on keeping the player. Get rid of Wilson, the under-achieving receiver and keep Harrison, the stud linebacker. Holmes took more analysis but in the end they didn't figure he would re-sign with us anyway so it would make us look better to get rid of him.

Ben's case though is very different. With Holmes, Harrison, and Wilson we KNOW they did something wrong. None of us KNOWS Ben did anything wrong. We might feel he did or assume he did but we don't know. I have a hard time condemning anyone for bad behavior without knowing they are responsible for it.

So, to get back on topic, how in the hell do you give up a championship winning QB when you don't know he's done wrong? No way do I trade Ben.

Ben might be an idiot but he's our idiot!!

You cheer chadman, but you don't really agree with him.

1. You don't know if Ben did anything wrong. Chadman certainly says he did.

2. You don't want him traded.

I'm not sure what you are applauding. Free speech?

[Slapstick]

Ray Lewis had his day in court...

All Ben gets is a lifetime of judgment in the court of public opinion...

In the Ray Lewis case, he was charged and tried...

Ben gets all of the negatives without the opportunity to do anything to clear his name...and he'll most likely be sued on top of it all...

I'm not proclaiming Ben's innocence, but I do presume it...

[feltdizz]

Ray Lewis had his day in court...

All Ben gets is a lifetime of judgment in the court of public opinion...

In the Ray Lewis case, he was charged and tried...

Ben gets all of the negatives without the opportunity to do anything to clear his name...and he'll most likely be sued on top of it all...

I'm not proclaiming Ben's innocence, but I do presume it...

Ben had a chance after the McNulty case to clear his name... a year later he chose to go in a bathroom to party (allegedly) and provided shots to a bunch of college chicks.

By having a 2 for 1 with SA Ben makes it hard on himself to get sympathy from some fans.

[birtikidis]

I hear what chadman is saying. and I agree. to a point. I've coached HS ball for three years, and I developed my philosophy when it comes to character very quickly. I would rather lose with good kids, then win with troublemakers. BUT, I would really like to see a little more information come out before I start leaning in any direction. We haven't even heard from Ben other than a quick, nearly spur of the moment PC.