Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 44

Thread: For all those talking trade

  1. #11
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    5,407

    Re: For all those talking trade

    Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

    Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

    Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

    How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

    How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

    So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

    Or do you want to be better than that?

    Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

    Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

    And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

    So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

    OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

    We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

    Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

    And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..
    Schiavone's Race Career:

    Starts- 9
    Wins- 1
    2nd- 4
    3rd- 0
    Other- 4

    Prizemoney- $28,050.00


  2. #12
    Hall of Famer AngryAsian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,014

    Re: For all those talking trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman
    Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

    Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

    Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

    How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

    How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

    So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

    Or do you want to be better than that?

    Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

    Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

    And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

    So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

    OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

    We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

    Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

    And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..

    Sorry to break one of the rules.... FUCKING POST OF THE OFF-SEASON. This higher standard is the hallmark of the franchise. Surely nothing wrong in expecting the idealistic cornerstones that's the foundation of this organization.

  3. #13
    Hall of Famer Sugar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,087

    Re: For all those talking trade

    If that's what you feel the "Steeler Way" is than, no, I wouldn't support that at all. Fortunately I don't see that as the Steeler way.

    In fact, IMO, the Steeler Way means supporting your own in the face of spurrious accusations. Now if you're busted with 5 kilos of illegal drugs in your car that's different. The Steeler Way means hard work and being a good team member. It means never giving up on plays or games. It means winning championships with brutal Defense.

    Would I trade any player for the good of the team? Sure. There's not a team in the league willing to give us what Ben would be worth, so for that reason- no chance!

  4. #14
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,452

    Re: For all those talking trade

    Just a comment...

    We as fans have our own agenda when it comes to the Steelers. I don't think Ben will be traded if he changes his lifestyle. However, there will be no tolerance by the Rooneys. They find out he was out partying one time, I have confidence in saying that the Rooneys will view that as a step in the same direction. He is at that point. He doesn't have a pass anymore. He will then be moved. He will be suspended by the Rooney's if the league doesn't suspend him for this last allegation. Any fight, wrong words, bad teammate, anything...He will be moved. Peter King said on Sirius this morning that Dan Rooney was at a function yesterday receiving an award. He was asked if the Steelers organization supports Roethlisberger....His answer, "I'm not making any comment on that." Some of you tend to forget there is an "Old School" owner pulling the strings. Don't be surprised by anything that happens from this point forward. Prepare yourself. It is all in the hands of an adolescent millionare who might have a drinking problem and is out of strikes. You tell me what those odds are. Ben had to mature 10 years by Monday 4/12/2010. I don't know if that happen.

    I for one, do not want to see Ben traded. I want to believe he will do a "180" and start all over and get himself right. BUT...The Steelers were just diagnosed with cancer. That is about "To the point" you could be on the matter. I hope my heart is right and my head is wrong on this one!!!

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... lisberger/

    SO...That being said...If the owner of the Steelers has "no comment" in the media if he will support Roethlisberger...I feel the same way. I'm a Steeler fan first. I see black & gold before I see the name across the back!!!



  5. #15
    Hall of Famer Djfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,369

    Re: For all those talking trade

    OK Third Person Man, you got me. The logic is too solid for me to argue.

    But, I have this caveat to add before I jump in that boat: Let's have it all wash out first. By that I mean that we have only heard one side from hidden accusers. I am still not settled about the idea that a VERY drunk girl who is willing to disregard rule of law to get there, had a fake ID taken away shortly before the incident, and who changed the story a couple of times, can hold his guilty or innocent status. Same argument with McNulty and the third myterious accuser.

    Flush that out and I am in that boat.
    Steel City Mafia
    So Cal Boss (Ret)
    http://www.anewsong.com


    My son's first Kansas Turkey!

  6. #16
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    5,407

    Re: For all those talking trade

    Thanks Asian...not sure about 'post of the off-season', but Chadman appreciates the support.

    Sugar- you are entitled to your view of 'The Steeler Way', even if we don't share the same view. Please don't feel that Chadman was saying you are wrong- everyone has a different opinion on how a football team should develop it's culture.

    JPN & DJ...Chadman will group you two together...here's the thing about this case. After the McNulty affair news broke, Ben denied all claims & said he was innocent. The Steelers visually supported him in this.

    After Georgia...Ben hasn't actually denied anything. He said that sex was consentual, sure, but this is all different. The Steelers, as a whole, have not stood by him, they are not offering support. Dan Rooney, given the opportunity to publicly support Ben chose to say that he has no comment on the situation. Ben has apologised for....what? If he wasn't guilty of something, what is there to apologise for? He didn't apologise for McNulty, did he? The Georgia DA wanted to prosecute, in Chadman's opinion, but it seems that the wishes of 'the victim' were adhered to. Ben....was very lucky. His Steeler career is secondary to his personal life in this- he could well have been in jail. Most of you know I supported Ben's innocence when this affair broke. Still do- he isn't 'guilty', in the same way Ray Lewis isn't guilty. BUT- the reaction from the Georgia DA, the Rooneys, the Steelers & in particular, Ben, just leave a bad taste in the mouth. One that, regardless of being charged or not, isn't going to go away. For as long as Ben is a Steeler, we have a 'sexual assaulter that got away with it' in our organisation, much like the Ravens have a 'murderer'.

    The Steelers drew the 'hard line' on Santonio Holmes, and Chadman applauds them for it- surely not an easy decision to lower the 'quality' of your athletes in order to maintain a certain level of 'values'. But if they don't at least explore the possibilities of similar recourse with Ben, the Steelers will add 'double standards' to the increasing list of 'bad character issues' within the organisation.
    Schiavone's Race Career:

    Starts- 9
    Wins- 1
    2nd- 4
    3rd- 0
    Other- 4

    Prizemoney- $28,050.00


  7. #17

    Re: For all those talking trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman
    Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

    Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

    Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

    How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

    How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

    So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

    Or do you want to be better than that?

    Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

    Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

    And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

    So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

    OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

    We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

    Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

    And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..
    Chadman you need to get an EFFIN GRIP!

    Sorry...the original post cracked me up. Listen, I get ya. But, you have kinda done a 180 here and now you are off in la la land. This organization handles it's business and in the cases of proven wrong doing suspends and lets players go. The problem? No one has proven a crime with Ben. Shoot there wasn't even enough evidence to charge him. You are taking the word of a girl who initially said she wasn't raped and had a blood alcohol of .2 hours after her last drink.

    Let me give you best/worst case scenerios with a trade...

    Best-Ben was guilty...you got rid of a POS and you save the image of the franchise from Bengaldom.

    Worst-While Ben might not have put himself in the best situations he was never guilty of a crime. He was actually victimized by two opportunists. The Steelers cut their franchise QB, don't win another SB for 20+ years and overreact to a situation in which no crime was proven. You traded away your franchise QB on the word of a couple chicks...one who was very drunk and another bragging about wanting to have Ben's baby. You failed to support one of your players and basically kicked him while he was down. You lose the support of your remaining players because your team doesn't go to bat for it's players.

    I think the Steelers can gain alot of respect in this situation by enforcing their own strict in house suspension. That is the way to go in this particular situation. It wasn't like Ben had been charged/convicted of a crime, tweeted about wanting fans to off themselves or about his rape fetishes.

    I believe trading Ben is overreacting to this situation.

  8. #18
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    12,890

    Re: For all those talking trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman
    Hmm....Chadman wonders how many of you would be howling for someone's head to roll if they were a player from another franchise?

    Say for example, the 'murderer' Ray Lewis.

    Come on, let's be honest- how many of you think of Lewis as a murderer? How many of you have thought- he got away with one? If nobody puts their hand up, Chadman will call liar, because there has been numerous occasions where we have often put the boot in on Ray.

    How many of you have said or thought- glad I don't support the Ravens/Bengals? How many will admit it's because those organisations have a number of players on their roster with questionable character?

    How many of you have said- the Steelers don't draft players with bad character? Or have thought that the Steelers 'do things better'? Chadman sure as hell has.

    So, here's the point- Do we 'want' to be one of those teams? A Bengals/Ravens, low character, dubious ethics, letting player indescretions slide if it means the team is, somehow, better?

    Or do you want to be better than that?

    Do you want that fabled franchise that 'does things better'? Because Chadman can assure you, the Rooneys want that. It's the image they want the Steelers to portray- a higher class organisation.

    Now, if we can still call Ray a 'murderer', even though he wasn't charged, and therefore we can use Ray Lewis as the beacon that shows the Ravens to be a low-class organisation- why can't fans of every other team do the same with Ben?

    And if they can do that- how can the Steelers ever be viewed as a higher class organisation?

    So, here's the thing. We can all stand here & say- we should give Ben another chance, and pretend that we believe he is innocent, and that the Steelers are still a class organisation.

    OR...we can demand that the Steelers ARE a class organisation, and not allow their roster to be infested with players who have poor, embarrasing morals & behaviour.

    We can't have it both ways- you either want to support 'the Steeler way', or you support 'winning at all costs'.

    Fact is, if you support 'the Steeler way', you know in your heart that Ben should go the way of Santonio, and that Reed should be packing up too.

    And if you don't feel that way- if you feel that trading a player of the calibre of Ben would result in too many poor seasons for your little heart to endure- then Chadman sure hopes you are not one of the stone throwers who live in those damn glass houses..

  9. #19
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    5,407

    Re: For all those talking trade

    This organization handles it's business and in the cases of proven wrong doing suspends and lets players go. The problem? No one has proven a crime with Ben.
    Not all the time, it doesn't. James Harrison, anyone?

    You are right though Shawn, Chadman has done a 180. To a point. If you remember- Chadman's biggest issue was actually with the media, not Ben or his situation.

    The issue Chadman now has is that despite not being charged, it would most certainly seem that there was something untoward that happened in Georgia. Lack of evidence, change of heart, secret payments...whatever the reason charges were not laid, you know it in your heart- something was not right.

    So this is Chadman's point- if we, or more importantly, the Rooney's, have had enough of the bad behaviour, you can't just ship out Holmes & believe we are sweet again. It would say more to the fans, to the opposition, to the NFL & most importantly to the players in the organisation, if the Steelers take the hard line on it's highest profile player.
    Schiavone's Race Career:

    Starts- 9
    Wins- 1
    2nd- 4
    3rd- 0
    Other- 4

    Prizemoney- $28,050.00


  10. #20
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,452

    Re: For all those talking trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman
    Thanks Asian...not sure about 'post of the off-season', but Chadman appreciates the support.

    Sugar- you are entitled to your view of 'The Steeler Way', even if we don't share the same view. Please don't feel that Chadman was saying you are wrong- everyone has a different opinion on how a football team should develop it's culture.

    JPN & DJ...Chadman will group you two together...here's the thing about this case. After the McNulty affair news broke, Ben denied all claims & said he was innocent. The Steelers visually supported him in this.

    After Georgia...Ben hasn't actually denied anything. He said that sex was consentual, sure, but this is all different. The Steelers, as a whole, have not stood by him, they are not offering support. Dan Rooney, given the opportunity to publicly support Ben chose to say that he has no comment on the situation. Ben has apologised for....what? If he wasn't guilty of something, what is there to apologise for? He didn't apologise for McNulty, did he? The Georgia DA wanted to prosecute, in Chadman's opinion, but it seems that the wishes of 'the victim' were adhered to. Ben....was very lucky. His Steeler career is secondary to his personal life in this- he could well have been in jail. Most of you know I supported Ben's innocence when this affair broke. Still do- he isn't 'guilty', in the same way Ray Lewis isn't guilty. BUT- the reaction from the Georgia DA, the Rooneys, the Steelers & in particular, Ben, just leave a bad taste in the mouth. One that, regardless of being charged or not, isn't going to go away. For as long as Ben is a Steeler, we have a 'sexual assaulter that got away with it' in our organisation, much like the Ravens have a 'murderer'.

    The Steelers drew the 'hard line' on Santonio Holmes, and Chadman applauds them for it- surely not an easy decision to lower the 'quality' of your athletes in order to maintain a certain level of 'values'. But if they don't at least explore the possibilities of similar recourse with Ben, the Steelers will add 'double standards' to the increasing list of 'bad character issues' within the organisation.
    I don't know why you would group me with DJ. I know all the specifics of the cases and I was the one who just posted Rooney's interview. Ben is my favorite Steeler but the risk is to great and I'm a Steelers fan first. I would love to have him remain if we knew 100% he could change his life around. I stand behind whatever course the Rooney's choose. I hope they suspend him and monitor his progress. One slip...Show him the door. I think you got me confused with someone else.

    The Steelers never supported Roethlisberger on any incident. They were concerned by his actions even in Nevada. Never did they say they support Ben. That wouldn't be a smart thing to do in case charges came forth. Ben never denied he had sex, he denied assault. Ben had consentual sex with her.

    Ben is guilty of many things in Georgia. One is even chargable crime/misdemeanor but the DA won't pursue at the request of the alleged victim. Plus, the victim herself would be in trouble. One statement that came from the DA explains what the Rooneys are up against. "We are not condoning Mr. Roethlisberger's actions that night but we do not prosecute morals, we prosecute crimes." Dan Rooney doesn't have to follow that rule and he won't.



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •