are there any good guards between the 4-7 that could be had for good value?
had to edit, meant to say guards wrote centers.. my bad.
Timmons (15th overall pick) didn't start in his 2nd year. But if Urbik (3rd round pick) doesn't start in year 2, you are writing him off as a bust? What about our 1st round pick Ziggy Hood? He's not expected to start this year. Does that mean he's automatically a bust too?Originally Posted by MaxAMillion
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
This has been a good thread with some great points going back and forth. I'll add my little bit here, but this comes from a perspective of not having seen the players discussed.
1. For those who believe that Pouncey is not a first round talent a la Troy Edwards, that view disagrees with almost everything I've seen in sites other than this one. How high a talent he is I have seen differing viewpoints, but nowhere else do you see him called "not first round talent". From everything I've seen there is not another Center rated close to him.
2. DB seems to have a couple of really top guys - Haden, Berry, Thomas - but after that there should be several equal players available in the second or third.
3. We still have two picks from last year around and we have no idea how they have been perfoming and how ready they are. The coaching staff does. And don't think that because they gave a limited contribution last year that it means that they are not ready. I don't know what the coaches think of them, but they may have a very different opinion on the need for an early CB.
OL would not surprise me at all. There seems to be very few first round type impact 3-4 D players who are projected to be around for us in the first - aside from Graham who has been debated to death around this forum. Unless one of the top three DBs fall, I can see the pick being Pouncey, Iaputi, or possibly a dropping OT.
Bingo we have a winner...Originally Posted by birtikidis
One game in particular game that is an example of this from last year is the first Cincy game. We actually had the ball with less than 2 minutes and we could not close out the game. Who gets the credit for the loss the O or the D?
I definitely want a stronger physical line, and Pauncey sounds like a good start. However, I he might be a bit too high at 18 to select considering their should be an impact ( BPA) available. What would you rather have A Heath Miller caliber player or a Center.
If we decide to strengthen line early in the draft, I want a top 5 tackle or trade back to select PAUNCEY or trade up in the late 1st or early 2nd.
I think that is reasonable. And controlling the clock is huge in keeping the fresh. With that said, I seen a stat...too lazy to look it up now that showed the Steelers had more TOP than their opponents last season. So, that's not the only answer. It's another reason why Odrick is not out of the running either. Being able to rotate him in would be huge.Originally Posted by birtikidis
I'm not talking TOP, that arguement was several months ago. I'm talking about imposing your will on the opponent, holding onto the ball when it matters and dominating the line of scrimmage.Originally Posted by Shawn
TOP can be skewed. quick turnovers that lead to a score (or a score on a TO), kickoff returns. those things skew that stat. there is no stat that shows how much your imposing your will or dominating the line of scrimmage though. and if you (and I know you have) watched the games then you know that we didn't control anything.
If we look at the first Cinci game, I think we had a lead going into the 4th 21-9 (or something close). The defense gave up drives of 91 yards and 79 yards in the 4th quarter alone. They have to make a stop. Was this the game with a 4th and 12 that Farrior whiffed on the RB out of the backfield or was that the second Cinci game?
If you look at the Raiders game, the offense handed the lead back to the defense two or three time late fourth quarter and the defense couldn't stop Gradbowski. Everytime the offense was on the field in the fourth quarter they had to score, they were trailing, they could not run out the clock.
If you even go as far as the Miami game, at that time we still had small playoffs hopes, the Dolphins almost came back with another late rally with a fourth or fifth string QB.
I think we need to address the defensive side of the ball, first.
No, I guess if Pouncy is that good (best center in 10 years) I don't have a problem taking. I just thought we may be "reaching " for a 2nd round talent because he is the best center in a weak class. Question: If Pouncey was in the same class as last year's crop (Wood, Mack, Unger, i.e.), where would he rate. Would he be #1, #2, #3, or #4 of that group?
To answer the question if Thomas, Berry, and Haden were gone, what defensive player would you chose? I would need to know who I could assume was still standing: Weatherspoon, McClain, Graham, etc?
I also agree with the post above, this was/ is a good discussion.
Pouncey IMO would rate as the #1 center last year.
I don't get this talk about him only being a 1st rounder because it's a weak Center class. that's crazy. there is so much talent in this draft that, if anything, should cause him to fall. instead he's rising. you would predict that with as much talent as there is that he should fall. yet the reverse is happening. he's rising, not because it's a weak center class, but because HE HAS THAT MUCH TALENT.
I do agree that we need to shore up the defense, but IMO the three guys that we should key in on are gonna be gone (Haden, Thomas, Mclain). there is an outside chance we take Weatherspoon, but there is SOOO much depth in this draft at CB, S and LB that we can get a really good player in the 2nd and 3rd round...
All these teams switching to a 3-4, more and more teams will be drafting Centers high. Get use to seeing this for awhile (Centers picked higher than usual in the first round).
Their value has gone up.
"That's just Ben being Superman" -John Madden, Super Bowl XLIII