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Thread: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

  1. #11
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    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel
    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman
    Quote Originally Posted by ramblinjim


    ....and he's just like any other 3-4 NT. If you aren't worried about their weight, they probably aren't big enough to play 33-4 NT.
    a 33-4!!!


    Pretty sure there might be a few flags thrown before the snap...


    the scouting report against a 33-4 defense is you have to throw quick passes against it. The 33-4 is almost impossible to run against and it's very hard to block that many rushers for very long.

    It would definitely be good against the run huh?
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  2. #12
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    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    I see what everyone's saying, it's just that in a 3/4, that NT is going to need to be 6'2, 330+ and that's always going to be a cause for concern.
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  3. #13

    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    Cody's conditioning issues scare me. When Casey was younger, he wasn't in horrendous shape. I even remember one year the Steelers put in a "fat package" where Casey and the other NT (either Hoke or Clancy) stayed on the field in the nickel, and the Steelers went to a traditional 4 man line. When he was younger, Big Snack was pretty quick, and he is obviously still very effective now. You expect that 3-4 NTs will get bigger (and fatter) with age, but if they have problems when they're 22, you know it will be much worse when they are 32.

    I also don't think that a NT makes sense in the first round. With Casey locked up for 3 years, the Steelers don't need to spend a premium pick on the position. If they're looking for an heir apparent, they can start grooming a mid-round pick. I think they could even wait a year to do that.

  4. #14
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    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Capers
    There is one big difference between a 4-3 NT and 3-4 NT. A normal 4-3 NT alignment places the DT in the gap between the C and G. The DT is well positioned to engage both the C and G at the snap. Unless the lineman run away from him (pull, etc…), with good play neither should get past him, and they shouldn’t be able to move him backwards. This is different in a 3-4. Lining up directly over the C, the NT is not well positioned to stop the G’s from bypassing him and blocking the LB’s, a battle that they will lose. This is why the C vs the NT must be a battle that heavily favors the NT. If they choose to skip him, he has to make them pay by defeating the C and making the stop in the backfield. The NT usually either covers one or both of the gaps on either side of the C.
    This is why Casey Hampton is one of the best NTs in the game. He requires guard help which doesn't allow the hat-on-a-hat plus one. Drafting his replacement if one of the top 2 is available would be fine with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Capers
    The mack is the play maker. He often has no gap assigned to him. He is to seek and destroy the guy with the ball. If the rest of the front did their jobs, he should be free of blockers. If not, he should shed any block immediately or go around them in pursuit of the ball. The mack is the star of the defense. He should always be around the ball. If he is blocked, the secondary has to make the play.
    If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

    Pappy


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  5. #15
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    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

    Pappy
    They need to give Farrior's mack position to Timmons. Let Foote and Fox worry about being the thumper at the buck. We could also still consider drafting Brandon Spikes to be the buck of the future, since his poor showings at the combine and pro day have dropped him out of 2nd round consideration, and he may now be available as late as the 4th round.

  6. #16
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    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

    Pappy
    They need to give Farrior's mack position to Timmons. Let Foote and Fox worry about being the thumper at the buck. We could also still consider drafting Brandon Spikes to be the buck of the future, since his poor showings at the combine and pro day have dropped him out of 2nd round consideration, and he may now be available as late as the 4th round.

    I agree. As well as Timmons did last year I think he would be even better playing in Farrior's position. The problem is that Farrior is probably not able to play the "buck" which means Timmons is kinda stuck there until they decide to part ways with Farrior.

    I would have no issue taking Spikes in Round 3. For all the stats relative to times and the like, he was a highly productive player in the toughest conference in college football. He could be a "steal" in Round 3.
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  7. #17
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    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

    Pappy
    They need to give Farrior's mack position to Timmons. Let Foote and Fox worry about being the thumper at the buck. We could also still consider drafting Brandon Spikes to be the buck of the future, since his poor showings at the combine and pro day have dropped him out of 2nd round consideration, and he may now be available as late as the 4th round.
    I don't get Farrior playing the mack and Timmons the buck that seems exactly opposite to what was described by Dom Capers. Maybe Lebeau plays a different flavor of the 3-4 than Dom Capers described.

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

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  8. #18
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    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    If Lawrence Timmons is going to live up to his draft status he will need to become the star of the Steelers 3-4 defense. This position has his name written all over it (I must now admit that saying his natural position is OLB was incorrect). With his speed and quickness and learning to shed blockers he should rack up 100+ tackles very soon.

    Pappy
    They need to give Farrior's mack position to Timmons. Let Foote and Fox worry about being the thumper at the buck. We could also still consider drafting Brandon Spikes to be the buck of the future, since his poor showings at the combine and pro day have dropped him out of 2nd round consideration, and he may now be available as late as the 4th round.
    I don't get Farrior playing the mack and Timmons the buck that seems exactly opposite to what was described by Dom Capers. Maybe Lebeau plays a different flavor of the 3-4 than Dom Capers described.

    Pappy
    I think that Farrior is where he is at because he has expereince and he makes all the defensive calls. Timmons lacks that experience.

    Don't forget as short as two to three years ago Farrior had all the skills required to be a very good "mack." He was very good in pass coverage and reading plays. Don't know if last year he had a nagging injury or if he just lost it but right now YTimmons would be better as the "mack"
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  9. #19
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    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    Farrior isn't a big guy and really isn't built to take on blockers. I bet his weight was close to a little over 200 lbs at some points the last 2 seasons. With his decline in speed, I don't think it's a guarantee that he starts this year.

    Fox has looked good when he's played. And Timmons can slide into Farrior's spot.

    Re: Timmons playing OLB, I still think he could end up in Harrison's spot when Harrison is done. Timmons is explosive in his first 10 yards or so. That explosion off the edge is something we don't have in our pass rush today.

    Timmons is only 24. I think next year is going to be his year. 1 year as a full time starter adjusts the body and mind. Now it's time to unleash this beast.

  10. #20
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    Re: 3-4 schemes provide challenges for NFL teams in draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman
    Shouldn't dismiss Cody as an option- if you look past his flabby body & see the football player- he's a BETTER 3-4 NT than Williams.

    There, it's been said.


    Bama NT heading out for visits ...

    It appears that Alabama NT Terrence 'Mount' Cody may be very much back in the late first round mix. Cody, whose stock took a hit when he showed up at this year's Senior Bowl overweight and out-of-shape reportedly will be visiting with Baltimore, San Diego and the New York Jets in the next couple of weeks. All three teams run 3-4 schemes and each is reportedly in the market for a young NT and have the 25th, 28th and 29th picks this year respectively.

    Again, there are no guarantees that a team, or teams, that bring in a player for a visit will actually take that player, however, there is clearly a trend developing for Cody who to his credit has reportedly wrked hard since the Senior Bowl and has dropped much of the excess baggage, although weight control will obviousy continue to be a major red flag for him heading forward.

    http://www.gbnreport.com/draftbuzz.html

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