Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 35

Thread: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

  1. #21
    Legend papillon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Under your bed
    Posts
    6,940

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    It's difficult to evaluate the corner back situation due to the lack of playing time from Lewis and Burnett and Willie Gay's ability to get torched at will by opposing HOF quarterbacks such as Bruce Gradkowski, etc.

    Were Lewis and Burnett simply rookies over their head in the Steeler defense? Or, are they simply not up to NFL snuff and one of them couldn't replace Gay? Hard to say at this point. I would rate the CB situation as a 9 simply because there isn't enoughb information to make a conclusion to the contrary (that is NFL caliber CB play).

    Having a strong safety tandem is paramount to a good defense in the new NFL. Troy and Ryan are as good a duo as there is the game and it would be difficult to say the Steelers need at safety is any greater than 3 or 4. However, Troy was nicked all last year and Ryan may have issues with his health. The backups for these two positions are woefully inadequate and adding a safety (particularly one that can play both if necessary) would be a good plan.

    The linebacking corps appears to be set, but Foote and Farrior are on the down side and Timmons is still learning to play inside in the Steeler defense. I would rate an ILB about a 7 and a rush OLB about a 4. A good inside linebacker at 1.18 would be a good plan as well.

    The defensive line needs an infusion of youth unparalleled by any other position on the team. Hood appears to be a player, Hampton and Smith are two of the best at their positions, Kiesel is aging and Kirscke is the oldest (I think), the others are unproven. I see this as an 8 on your scale and another defensive end or a NT would be a welcomed addition as well.

    And, just so Oviedo doesn't think I can't get out of the box and look at the offensive side of the ball I would rate running back a 6 or 7 and drafting Spiller at 1.18 (but no higher) would be a nice addition. Although, I'd rather see the bruiser Blount later in the draft, Spiller certainly would bolster the RB group.

    Pappy


    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

    "Before you can win a game, you have to not lose it." -- Chuck Noll

  2. #22
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    13,280

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel
    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER
    and if the others do turn out, Ike isn't exactly a spring chicken and i believe his contract is up after this upcoming year (if not, then the next, IIRC)

    whats wrong with having more then 1 good corner
    Nothing is wrong with it. BUT our holes are bigger and require less of a REACH to fill. other than haden who do you take in this draft where we draft? IMO no body. but if we took thomas, it wouldn't be a reach and it would fill a need. and he'd probably be BPA. and you get to see if the kids can turn it up.
    now if Haden is there... take him. but don't reach for someone there just because it's a PERCEIVED need. I put CB as our #3 need after safety and LBer (I'm not sold on the Foote signing, he's not a long term solution and all but Timmons and wood are getting old.)


    sorry, but i don't agree that CB is our #3 need after safety and LBer. if we hadn't re-signed Ryan Clark and Larry Foote perhaps, but not now.

    at safety we have Troy and Ryan Clark entrenched as starters...i will agree that we could still use a #3 safety (CB/FS Earl Thomas in Round 1, SS Myron Rolle in Round 5?).

    at LB we have Harrison, Farrior, Timmons, Woodley, Fox and the newly-signed Larry Foote...I would be all for adding a pass rushing OLB here, but the first six spots are set.

    at CB, who are our starters? last year's starters Willie Gay and Ike Taylor have contracts that expire after this season and every other CB on the roster has proven absolutely nothing so far...

    this draft is very, very deep for CBs...please, please draft one of them early!
    You criticize the CBs on the roster for proving nothing, but sing the praises of CB who have proved less in the NFL as the solution. The CBs on the roster have at least made an NFL roster and played in NFL games. The kids in the draft have done nothing to prove they will be any better on the same playing field.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  3. #23
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    1,473

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Life
    As far as need is concerned, none is any more important than the others & there are cases to be made for each. But if I had to choose based on the info provided, I would choose Strong Safety as the apparent lack of real talent to fill in for Troy is alarming. That isn't to minimize the the need of the other positions, it's just that our defense is so dependent on Troy & the way he throws himself around, that a suitable replacement must be found.

    That being said, take the BPA & don't look back.
    so you think our biggest need is a strong safety to back up Troy all year long in case he gets hurt?
    I do - as far as the secondary is concerned & I'm far less concerned about the secondary than I am about the defensive line & then the LB depth (age-wise). You see, I'm a firm believer that the front seven make a good secondary, not the other way around.

    Last year our replacement for Troy was Tyrone Carter & our secondary was torched relentlessly - it wasn't all Gay's fault. We must be prepared for the fact that Troy may be becoming a bit brittle - like Bob Sanders - & like the Colts we must find some talent to develop behind him like they did in Bethea.
    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust & sweat & blood...

  4. #24

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    I think cb is by far our most pressing need. I would love to get a stoudt DL or a ferocious LB, but I just can't see how we could pass up CB who has immediate starting potential. Even if it is only to create some competition in the backfield. We all know what happened when Will Gay was handed the job without really competing for it. In this day of pass gone wild NFL, IMO, you need at least four quality starters and a decent nickle just to stay competitve against average qb's. Our secondary was the weakest part of our team and needs upgrading, badly.......

  5. #25
    Legend hawaiiansteel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Hawaii 5-0
    Posts
    14,979

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo
    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel
    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER
    and if the others do turn out, Ike isn't exactly a spring chicken and i believe his contract is up after this upcoming year (if not, then the next, IIRC)

    whats wrong with having more then 1 good corner
    Nothing is wrong with it. BUT our holes are bigger and require less of a REACH to fill. other than haden who do you take in this draft where we draft? IMO no body. but if we took thomas, it wouldn't be a reach and it would fill a need. and he'd probably be BPA. and you get to see if the kids can turn it up.
    now if Haden is there... take him. but don't reach for someone there just because it's a PERCEIVED need. I put CB as our #3 need after safety and LBer (I'm not sold on the Foote signing, he's not a long term solution and all but Timmons and wood are getting old.)


    sorry, but i don't agree that CB is our #3 need after safety and LBer. if we hadn't re-signed Ryan Clark and Larry Foote perhaps, but not now.

    at safety we have Troy and Ryan Clark entrenched as starters...i will agree that we could still use a #3 safety (CB/FS Earl Thomas in Round 1, SS Myron Rolle in Round 5?).

    at LB we have Harrison, Farrior, Timmons, Woodley, Fox and the newly-signed Larry Foote...I would be all for adding a pass rushing OLB here, but the first six spots are set.

    at CB, who are our starters? last year's starters Willie Gay and Ike Taylor have contracts that expire after this season and every other CB on the roster has proven absolutely nothing so far...

    this draft is very, very deep for CBs...please, please draft one of them early!
    You criticize the CBs on the roster for proving nothing, but sing the praises of CB who have proved less in the NFL as the solution. The CBs on the roster have at least made an NFL roster and played in NFL games. The kids in the draft have done nothing to prove they will be any better on the same playing field.

    we need an infusion of talent at the CB position, i think it's too risky to rely on the same group of CBs that couldn't get the job done last year.

    the NFL Draft is a crapshoot, there is no guarantee that any player drafted will ever contribute. however, i think it would be a good idea to draft a promising CB and add him to the mix. this is a very deep draft and there is some good value to be had in Rounds 2 and 3, why not take advantage of that value?

    let them all compete against each other and may the best CB win, whoever he is. i'll be cheering just as hard for the returning CBs as i would be for the rookie, like you i just want the very best for our Steelers.

  6. #26
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    5,415

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    Interesting (or perhaps concerning is the better term) bunch of stats for Ike & Willie Gay for the season...and we'll add Ryan Clark for good measure...

    Thrown at-
    Willie Gay- 105 times (7th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 98 times (12th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 26 times (51st in NFL- Safeties)

    Receptions-
    Willie Gay- 71 times (2nd in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 57 times (14th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 10 times (65th in NFL- Safeties)

    Reception Percentage-
    Willie Gay- 67.6% (21st in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 58.2% (65th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 38.5% (83rd in NFL- Safeties)

    Yards Allowed-
    Willie Gay- 775 yards (9th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 739 yards (11th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 180 yards (54th in NFL- Safeties)

    Average Yards Allowed-
    Willie Gay- 10.9 yards (79th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 13 yards (35th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 18 yards (14th in NFL for Safeties)

    Yards After Catch-
    Willie Gay- 260 yards (17th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 178 yards (52nd in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 15 yards (84th in NFL for Safeties)

    Touchdowns Allowed-
    Willie Gay- 2 TD's (47th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 3 TD's (33rd in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 1 TD's (44th in NFL for Safeties)

    Pass Defensed-
    Willie Gay- 11 (12th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 9 (19th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 4 (14th in NFL for Safeties)

    NFL Rating- (QB Rating against CB- lower is better)
    Willie Gay- 95.5 (34th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 87.9 (45th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 36.2 (82nd in NFL for Safeties)

    Maybe Clark's agent was kidding when he called Clark one of the elite Safeties in the NFL?

    What is concerning is that for all our posturing on how good Ike is, his stats say he is moderately (and that is generous) better than the vilified Willie Gay. In fact, it would seem Gay is better at keeping the play in front of him than Ike is- just gives up far too many receptions.

    Thoughts?
    Schiavone's Race Career:

    Starts- 9
    Wins- 1
    2nd- 4
    3rd- 0
    Other- 4

    Prizemoney- $28,050.00


  7. #27
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,175

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo
    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteel
    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    Quote Originally Posted by NJ-STEELER
    and if the others do turn out, Ike isn't exactly a spring chicken and i believe his contract is up after this upcoming year (if not, then the next, IIRC)

    whats wrong with having more then 1 good corner
    Nothing is wrong with it. BUT our holes are bigger and require less of a REACH to fill. other than haden who do you take in this draft where we draft? IMO no body. but if we took thomas, it wouldn't be a reach and it would fill a need. and he'd probably be BPA. and you get to see if the kids can turn it up.
    now if Haden is there... take him. but don't reach for someone there just because it's a PERCEIVED need. I put CB as our #3 need after safety and LBer (I'm not sold on the Foote signing, he's not a long term solution and all but Timmons and wood are getting old.)







    sorry, but i don't agree that CB is our #3 need after safety and LBer. if we hadn't re-signed Ryan Clark and Larry Foote perhaps, but not now.

    at safety we have Troy and Ryan Clark entrenched as starters...i will agree that we could still use a #3 safety (CB/FS Earl Thomas in Round 1, SS Myron Rolle in Round 5?).

    at LB we have Harrison, Farrior, Timmons, Woodley, Fox and the newly-signed Larry Foote...I would be all for adding a pass rushing OLB here, but the first six spots are set.

    at CB, who are our starters? last year's starters Willie Gay and Ike Taylor have contracts that expire after this season and every other CB on the roster has proven absolutely nothing so far...

    this draft is very, very deep for CBs...please, please draft one of them early!
    You criticize the CBs on the roster for proving nothing, but sing the praises of CB who have proved less in the NFL as the solution. The CBs on the roster have at least made an NFL roster and played in NFL games. The kids in the draft have done nothing to prove they will be any better on the same playing field.
    you think 1st and 2nd round corners in this draft will have difficulty making this roster?

  8. #28
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Tampa, Florida, United States
    Posts
    3,697

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    Here's what some of you are failing to understand. our LB'ers (which i say are a need) are OLD (except 2 of them). I'm not thinking what do we need for next year, and neither are the steelers. I'm thinking LONG TERM. seriously people, what do we do when we have 3 lbers that all end up gone at the same time and NO YOUNG TALENT to step in??? seriously, you build through the draft, you don't look at the draft as an IMMEDIATE solution. Sure Haden would be nice, but I wouldn't REACH for anyone else because there is just as good talent sitting there in the second.
    http://jeromiandbrittany.blogspot.com/

    Earn Some Bitcoins


    PBMining

    http://www.qoinpro.com/91f8fc96f7dfd461f6483ab3950deccc

    I am paying for my honeymoon using bitcoins.
    1PQsjF9rQqEWF8RfPzczyqCW6ULu1nZ3iu

  9. #29
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Tampa, Florida, United States
    Posts
    3,697

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    Quote Originally Posted by Chadman
    Interesting (or perhaps concerning is the better term) bunch of stats for Ike & Willie Gay for the season...and we'll add Ryan Clark for good measure...

    Thrown at-
    Willie Gay- 105 times (7th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 98 times (12th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 26 times (51st in NFL- Safeties)

    Receptions-
    Willie Gay- 71 times (2nd in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 57 times (14th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 10 times (65th in NFL- Safeties)

    Reception Percentage-
    Willie Gay- 67.6% (21st in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 58.2% (65th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 38.5% (83rd in NFL- Safeties)

    Yards Allowed-
    Willie Gay- 775 yards (9th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 739 yards (11th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 180 yards (54th in NFL- Safeties)

    Average Yards Allowed-
    Willie Gay- 10.9 yards (79th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 13 yards (35th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 18 yards (14th in NFL for Safeties)

    Yards After Catch-
    Willie Gay- 260 yards (17th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 178 yards (52nd in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 15 yards (84th in NFL for Safeties)

    Touchdowns Allowed-
    Willie Gay- 2 TD's (47th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 3 TD's (33rd in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 1 TD's (44th in NFL for Safeties)

    Pass Defensed-
    Willie Gay- 11 (12th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 9 (19th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 4 (14th in NFL for Safeties)

    NFL Rating- (QB Rating against CB- lower is better)
    Willie Gay- 95.5 (34th in NFL)
    Ike Taylor- 87.9 (45th in NFL)
    Ryan Clark- 36.2 (82nd in NFL for Safeties)

    Maybe Clark's agent was kidding when he called Clark one of the elite Safeties in the NFL?

    What is concerning is that for all our posturing on how good Ike is, his stats say he is moderately (and that is generous) better than the vilified Willie Gay. In fact, it would seem Gay is better at keeping the play in front of him than Ike is- just gives up far too many receptions.

    Thoughts?
    the question is Chadman, was last season an aberation due to having much lesser talent playing the safety and DE positions? As a whole our defense underperformed. Defenses are formed from more than one position, and perhaps, since we don't know, maybe alot of those receptions were caused from inconsistent play from Carter? last season was eerily reminscent of 2006 when we lost TP and had to put in TC....

    and about your comment on Gay and Ike, how often was Gay lined up on the opponents #1? and with little or no quality help over the top, you should expect numbers to be skewed a little.
    http://jeromiandbrittany.blogspot.com/

    Earn Some Bitcoins


    PBMining

    http://www.qoinpro.com/91f8fc96f7dfd461f6483ab3950deccc

    I am paying for my honeymoon using bitcoins.
    1PQsjF9rQqEWF8RfPzczyqCW6ULu1nZ3iu

  10. #30
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    5,415

    Re: Rate the need at this position - Defensive Back

    Here's a question- would Wilie Gay be better off playing FS?
    Schiavone's Race Career:

    Starts- 9
    Wins- 1
    2nd- 4
    3rd- 0
    Other- 4

    Prizemoney- $28,050.00


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •