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Thread: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

  1. #11
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    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    Quote Originally Posted by snarky
    Quote Originally Posted by ghettoscott
    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by ghettoscott
    Quote Originally Posted by One club patron
    One club patron was perched just outside the closed-off area but had a clean view of Roethlisberger, and said other than not letting any males back there, he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary -- until the police arrived around 2:30 am.

    "He was as surprised as anybody," a college student at Georgia College & State University told FanHouse on condition of anonymity, since he was not legally supposed be in the bar after the 2 a.m. last call. "I don't think Ben had any idea what it was all about."
    This quote is more telling.....
    Well if he was in the bathroom with a tipsy 20 year old, fooling around, and then she fell and hit her head and he thought nothing of it at all, that is even more telling...
    depends on what "hit her head" means....if she fell down and cracked her skull then yeah, but it could also mean she slipped and hit her head stood back up and laughed it off. If Ben had no idea why the cops were there it leads me to believe she was okay....
    Here is the thing though, this is going to come down to what a person can testify to in court. You can't testify about another person's state of mind. For instance, you can't say something like "he looked guilty" but you can say "my impression based on his behavior is that he was concerned". On the other hand, one can testify that they saw two men standing outside the bathroom door and that those two men were part of Ben's group that night.

    This is really stacking up badly for Ben. Consider the things that people seem ready to testify to:

    1. He purchased shots for underage women.
    2. He used coarse and derogatory language towards these women
    3. He followed her into a bathroom and had people from his group guard the door
    4. While in the bathroom he committed some sort of sexual assaut
    5. While in the bathroom she suffered a head injury

    Now the meat of the matter is number 4 and possibly number 5 is there is disptue regarding how she was injured. But in a he-said, she-said case I would imagine a lot depends on how much a jury 'likes' or is comfortable with the accuser. 1-3 are not going to help.
    1 through 5 all hearsay.

  2. #12
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    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    How are they hearsay, exactly?

    Based on various news articles, it seems there are people prepared to give first hand testimony on each of those points.
    In response to his pleas, an officer said: "You think we've never arrested somebody that's made national media? ... We deal with the Bengals all the time."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848

  3. #13

    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    Quote Originally Posted by snarky
    How are they hearsay, exactly?

    Based on various news articles, it seems there are people prepared to give first hand testimony on each of those points.
    Hearsay might have been a poor choice of words but circumstantial fits better.

  4. #14
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    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    Agreed, they are circumstantial. But there is a reason circumstantial evidence is allowed in during a trial. Juries can and do use it to convict. Scott Peterson sits on death row and the entire case against him was circumstantial.

    Look, I'm not trying to convict Ben. But I think it's starting to look bad for him if this goes to a trial because all this stuff about buying shots and calling these women bitches is really going to make him unlikable to a jury.

    EDIT: And number 4 is not circumstantial (5 might not be either). If she delivers credible testimony on these points, it would not be circumstantial.
    In response to his pleas, an officer said: "You think we've never arrested somebody that's made national media? ... We deal with the Bengals all the time."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848

  5. #15
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    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn
    Quote Originally Posted by snarky
    How are they hearsay, exactly?

    Based on various news articles, it seems there are people prepared to give first hand testimony on each of those points.
    Hearsay might have been a poor choice of words but circumstantial fits better.
    Thanks, that's more what I meant.

  6. #16

    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    Quote Originally Posted by snarky
    Agreed, they are circumstantial. But there is a reason circumstantial evidence is allowed in during a trial. Juries can and do use it to convict. Scott Peterson sits on death row and the entire case against him was circumstantial.

    Look, I'm not trying to convict Ben. But I think it's starting to look bad for him if this goes to a trial because all this stuff about buying shots and calling these women bitches is really going to make him unlikable to a jury.

    EDIT: And number 4 is not circumstantial (5 might not be either). If she delivers credible testimony on these points, it would not be circumstantial.
    I don't see a jury in the world convicting on Ben yelling out a few remarks in celebration (rude or not) and a bump on a girls head. To convict with circumstantial evidence means you need to convince beyond a reasonable doubt...then you need to convince all 12 jurers. I'm not sure we have convinced even the most cynical of us that he is guilty with the current evidence.

    With that said, this needs to go away and fast for Ben. He needs to swallow his pride...pull out his wallet and get back to playing football. And maybe learn a lil sumthin sumthin this time around.

  7. #17
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    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn
    Quote Originally Posted by snarky
    Agreed, they are circumstantial. But there is a reason circumstantial evidence is allowed in during a trial. Juries can and do use it to convict. Scott Peterson sits on death row and the entire case against him was circumstantial.

    Look, I'm not trying to convict Ben. But I think it's starting to look bad for him if this goes to a trial because all this stuff about buying shots and calling these women bitches is really going to make him unlikable to a jury.

    EDIT: And number 4 is not circumstantial (5 might not be either). If she delivers credible testimony on these points, it would not be circumstantial.
    I don't see a jury in the world convicting on Ben yelling out a few remarks in celebration (rude or not) and a bump on a girls head. To convict with circumstantial evidence means you need to convince beyond a reasonable doubt...then you need to convince all 12 jurers. I'm not sure we have convinced even the most cynical of us that he is guilty with the current evidence.

    With that said, this needs to go away and fast for Ben. He needs to swallow his pride...pull out his wallet and get back to playing football. And maybe learn a lil sumthin sumthin this time around.
    Are you expecting she won't testify? If she testifies, then that is not circumstantial, that would be direct testimony of criminal activity. That's not circumstantial. But all the circumstantial stuff could bolster her version of events.
    In response to his pleas, an officer said: "You think we've never arrested somebody that's made national media? ... We deal with the Bengals all the time."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848

  8. #18

    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    Quote Originally Posted by snarky
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn
    Quote Originally Posted by snarky
    Agreed, they are circumstantial. But there is a reason circumstantial evidence is allowed in during a trial. Juries can and do use it to convict. Scott Peterson sits on death row and the entire case against him was circumstantial.

    Look, I'm not trying to convict Ben. But I think it's starting to look bad for him if this goes to a trial because all this stuff about buying shots and calling these women bitches is really going to make him unlikable to a jury.

    EDIT: And number 4 is not circumstantial (5 might not be either). If she delivers credible testimony on these points, it would not be circumstantial.
    I don't see a jury in the world convicting on Ben yelling out a few remarks in celebration (rude or not) and a bump on a girls head. To convict with circumstantial evidence means you need to convince beyond a reasonable doubt...then you need to convince all 12 jurers. I'm not sure we have convinced even the most cynical of us that he is guilty with the current evidence.

    With that said, this needs to go away and fast for Ben. He needs to swallow his pride...pull out his wallet and get back to playing football. And maybe learn a lil sumthin sumthin this time around.
    Are you expecting she won't testify? If she testifies, then that is not circumstantial, that would be direct testimony of criminal activity. That's not circumstantial. But all the circumstantial stuff could bolster her version of events.
    One testimony with possible monetary motivation even with a bump on the head is not enough to convict. If it were Ben would be arrested. I think she would have helped her case more by not obtaining an ambulance chaser right after the event. You have to understand as well that she will have to explain why she was in the BR in the first place.

  9. #19

    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    Just because ben told the bodyguards to stand watch at the door does not mean that his entrance to the bathroom for any purpose was consensual.

    It only means that he most likely told them "Watch the bathroom door."

    It does not mean that they had any knowledge of anything other than their order from their employer to do so.

    It would not be surprising to see the GBI squeeze these guys with charges of being accessories and accomplices in order to get them to roll on ben.

    Furthermore, any testimony from paid employees of ben in favor of his case is going to be viewed with skepticism in both an investigation and a trial by jury.

    They have great compelling reason to lie.

    One thing is certainly clear, in an extremely selfish and egomaniacal way ben has put everyone who was with him that night in jeopardy.

  10. #20
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    Re: Report: Bodyguards blocked bathroom door

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn
    One testimony with possible monetary motivation even with a bump on the head is not enough to convict. If it were Ben would be arrested. I think she would have helped her case more by not obtaining an ambulance chaser right after the event. You have to understand as well that she will have to explain why she was in the BR in the first place.
    I would be surprised if this went to trial and Ben's attorney brought up the potential of the alleged victim filing a civil suit because that would risk making the McNulty case admissible as a prior allegation.

    And as for her explaining why she went to the bathroom in the first place. I would say a number of things are possible:

    1. She was going to actually use the facility and he followed her in against her will or without her knowledge.
    2. She thought they were just going to make out and grope but that he forced himself on her beyond that.
    3. She went to the bathroom expecting they would have sex but changed her mind and said she wanted to leave and he forced herself on her.
    4. She is making this all up

    Now of course, she is not going to testify to number 4 but there are 3 things that could reasonably be true which would not exclude Ben committing a crime.

    And what BJG says makes sense to me -- the guys outside the door are going to be key. Although I doubt they would be expected to have heard anything since this is a night club. But if, for example, she was crying when she came out of the room then this gets very bad.
    In response to his pleas, an officer said: "You think we've never arrested somebody that's made national media? ... We deal with the Bengals all the time."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3880848

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