I have a question about Ben....

**Shawn** · 03-09-2010, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by feltdizz

I don't think Hell is fire and brimstones and a red guy with a fork.

Anyone seen the movie What Dreams May Come? I think Hell could be like they show it. A woman who really wants her family but is trapped all alone in her house.

Hell to me is coming back to this place called Earth. A girl asked me why God let's peoe die of cancer? I don't know the answer but the first thing I said was "because it's earth not heaven"

I have no idea but I know I was on my deathbed at 4 years old and my Mom said she gave me to God and after months of painful test and internal bleeding with no way to stop it a nurse pulled a splinter out of my foot and I was cured.

They called it WET ITP but every doctor in childrens hospital in Oakland had no clue. I was on a floor where the kids left and didn't come back, and they weren't going home.

I feel as though life is too short, I have no idea where I was before this and have no idea what is next. I believe because I do. If you do not that is fine, it's your life and I won't be at the gates deciding... I just find it hilarious how near death experiences usually have atheist calling for God or some higher power. No one hangs off a cliff or is trapped in a cave screaming please me help me.

What Dreams May Come might be the most underrated movie I have ever seen. It's in my top 5 favorite movies.

**Shawn** · 03-09-2010, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by eniparadoxgma

I'd think this relevant: [url="http://history.hanover.edu/texts/voltaire/volrelig.html"]http://history.hanover.edu/texts/voltaire/volrelig.html[/url].

I absolutely loved that. It really sheds light on the difference between loving religion and loving God and fellow man.

Maybe someday you will tell me about your views. I'm interested.

**Dee Dub** · 03-09-2010, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Shawn

Originally Posted by Dee Dub

Originally Posted by Shawn

Does the concept of hell bother me? Make me uncomfortable? Well yes. To think about a God who predestines those he creates to a function...and then burning them in fire for eternity for temporal sin epitomizes injustice. It eptomizes cruelty rather than love...especially agape love. It is a Christian concept that is force fed to us as children and we are scared to not believe it. It has zero support in the ancient texts.

So it is unjust of God to cast out into hell the man who brutally rapes and kills a little child?

I don't believe any temporal sin (something done within the confines of time) is deserving of burning in a lake of fire for eternity. I am of the belief that all of creation will be reconciled unto Christ. I didn't make that verse up but don't have my Bible to quote verse. I do not claim I know how God sorts things out after death. I do know there is a second judgement the Bible speaks about for believers...where our works are judged. I also know those who have been given much...much is expected. I know we are held to a different standard in the eyes of God.

I believe God wants us to search out his mysteries. I don't believe he wants us to be spoon fed babes in Christ. People just so easily accept the translations and men's interpretations of them.

And I agree with Ability. It's good to be careful with how we word things...because that statement did seem judgemental. As if I must believe in hell to be a follower of Christ...to love Christ and God. I trust God...not man. I do my own reading...my own research, look at all the interpretations and make my own. I draw my own conclusions. I believe that God wants us to do those things. If I'm wrong I suppose I will have to answer for that come judgement day. Some that are threatened by this will call me a heretic. I'm ok with that.

Let me get this straight….you read a book by a man (Martin Zender), which now shapes a lot of what you believe, yet question anything written in the Bible because it was written by man? And you also believe that there are no consequences with God for how we live or lives? That we will stand and exist in a place in the hereafter with those that have harmed and killed children? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?? Interesting.

**snarky** · 03-09-2010, 06:04 PM

[quote=Dee Dub]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Originally Posted by "Dee Dub":34f84t7p

Originally Posted by Shawn

Does the concept of hell bother me? Make me uncomfortable? Well yes. To think about a God who predestines those he creates to a function...and then burning them in fire for eternity for temporal sin epitomizes injustice. It eptomizes cruelty rather than love...especially agape love. It is a Christian concept that is force fed to us as children and we are scared to not believe it. It has zero support in the ancient texts.

So it is unjust of God to cast out into hell the man who brutally rapes and kills a little child?

I don't believe any temporal sin (something done within the confines of time) is deserving of burning in a lake of fire for eternity. I am of the belief that all of creation will be reconciled unto Christ. I didn't make that verse up but don't have my Bible to quote verse. I do not claim I know how God sorts things out after death. I do know there is a second judgement the Bible speaks about for believers...where our works are judged. I also know those who have been given much...much is expected. I know we are held to a different standard in the eyes of God.

I believe God wants us to search out his mysteries. I don't believe he wants us to be spoon fed babes in Christ. People just so easily accept the translations and men's interpretations of them.

And I agree with Ability. It's good to be careful with how we word things...because that statement did seem judgemental. As if I must believe in hell to be a follower of Christ...to love Christ and God. I trust God...not man. I do my own reading...my own research, look at all the interpretations and make my own. I draw my own conclusions. I believe that God wants us to do those things. If I'm wrong I suppose I will have to answer for that come judgement day. Some that are threatened by this will call me a heretic. I'm ok with that.

Let me get this straight….you read a book by a man (Martin Zender), which now shapes a lot of what you believe, yet question anything written in the Bible because it was written by man? And you also believe that there are no consequences with God for how we live or lives? That we will stand and exist in a place in the hereafter with those that have harmed and killed children? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?? Interesting.[/quote:34f84t7p]

You forgot to say you weren't judging him.

**Shawn** · 03-09-2010, 06:17 PM

[quote=Dee Dub]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Originally Posted by "Dee Dub":2aj86ci8

Originally Posted by Shawn

Does the concept of hell bother me? Make me uncomfortable? Well yes. To think about a God who predestines those he creates to a function...and then burning them in fire for eternity for temporal sin epitomizes injustice. It eptomizes cruelty rather than love...especially agape love. It is a Christian concept that is force fed to us as children and we are scared to not believe it. It has zero support in the ancient texts.

So it is unjust of God to cast out into hell the man who brutally rapes and kills a little child?

I don't believe any temporal sin (something done within the confines of time) is deserving of burning in a lake of fire for eternity. I am of the belief that all of creation will be reconciled unto Christ. I didn't make that verse up but don't have my Bible to quote verse. I do not claim I know how God sorts things out after death. I do know there is a second judgement the Bible speaks about for believers...where our works are judged. I also know those who have been given much...much is expected. I know we are held to a different standard in the eyes of God.

I believe God wants us to search out his mysteries. I don't believe he wants us to be spoon fed babes in Christ. People just so easily accept the translations and men's interpretations of them.

And I agree with Ability. It's good to be careful with how we word things...because that statement did seem judgemental. As if I must believe in hell to be a follower of Christ...to love Christ and God. I trust God...not man. I do my own reading...my own research, look at all the interpretations and make my own. I draw my own conclusions. I believe that God wants us to do those things. If I'm wrong I suppose I will have to answer for that come judgement day. Some that are threatened by this will call me a heretic. I'm ok with that.

Let me get this straight….you read a book by a man (Martin Zender), which now shapes a lot of what you believe, yet question anything written in the Bible because it was written by man? And you also believe that there are no consequences with God for how we live or lives? That we will stand and exist in a place in the hereafter with those that have harmed and killed children? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?? Interesting.[/quote:2aj86ci8]

So you believe I base my belief system off of what Zender wrote?

Come on...give me more credit than that. I read alot...and I read from both extremes. I also do my own research...I do not accept what is fed to me by any man. Zender is way out there on alot of issues. I do not agree with him on many. But, I did research everything he stated about hell. I couldn't find in error and by doing my own homework I seen how off some of the translations are. If some are off then you must question the whole...correct? Can you debate that I'm incorrect about the mistranslations?

And by asking me about child molestors you are trying to put me in a spot. Either I go against what I said or I look like someone who condones child molestation. Not cool. With that said...I do believe the Bible says ALL of creation will be reconciled under Christ. I believe the worst of sinners will be reconciled...I believe every knee and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. Do you really believe you are any better than the worst of these? What sins have you committed in your heart? Have you ever murdered someone in your mind? What was Christ's statements about doing so? I will reserve judgement for God. And like I said before I do not know how God sorts it out after death but I do not believe it will be with fire and brimestone for eternity.