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Thread: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

  1. #21
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    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by PSU_dropout43
    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    it's all about the situation. if ben was in INDY he would have a ton of stats but no superbowls. there isn't any balance to that team. If peyton were here he would have more superbowls but i thnk he'd still have a ton of stats.. Pittsburgh is a much more balanced TEAM both offensively and defensively. give peyton manning a top 5 defense every year and i gaurantee that he has more rings. and honestly I don't think manning has such a good offensive line. I think they look really good because he makes the fastest reads in the NFL and can get teh ball out before there is any pressure. ben would still take 50 sacks in INDY because he'd look for the big play instead of taking the underneath stuff that manning takes.
    Hey moron, can you prove that?

    "if's" are for children...children play the "if" games, adults don't.

    Gotta love morons. Without them, how would we be entertained?
    dur dur dur
    way to make a coherent arguement.
    opinions are like a$$holes every one has one. you must be mine.
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  2. #22

    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by papillon
    Quote Originally Posted by PSU_dropout43
    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    it's all about the situation. if ben was in INDY he would have a ton of stats but no superbowls. there isn't any balance to that team. If peyton were here he would have more superbowls but i thnk he'd still have a ton of stats.. Pittsburgh is a much more balanced TEAM both offensively and defensively. give peyton manning a top 5 defense every year and i gaurantee that he has more rings. and honestly I don't think manning has such a good offensive line. I think they look really good because he makes the fastest reads in the NFL and can get teh ball out before there is any pressure. ben would still take 50 sacks in INDY because he'd look for the big play instead of taking the underneath stuff that manning takes.
    Hey moron, can you prove that?

    "if's" are for children...children play the "if" games, adults don't.

    Gotta love morons. Without them, how would we be entertained?
    Wrong board...

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  3. #23

    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Ben will never get the playing respect he deserves in my opinion. I think many of these guys that now spew the NFL talk via the media, do not care for the Steelers.

    Also maybe Ben is the snob or buttplug many seem to claim he is ? Maybe he has turned off the sports writers in his favor ? Before you get yourselves in lather, just throwing stuff out here for the debate of it all.


    Manning had taken a team that never did too well since their move from Baltimore and turned things around. Ben is on a team that had its share of Super Bowl appearances and mostly always in the playoffs prior to his signing.


    Manning sure is good but so is Ben. I think Ben fits our Steelers and I doubt Manning could survive behind our line. Maybe Manning would make our line less noticable ?

    After all my talk and nothing really said, I have this question or ask your thoughts about this.

    Who's better, Ben or Drew Brees ? Right now on the NFL channel they're all in a twist over Drew Brees being an elite QB.

    WTH ? Ben has won two Super Bowls and I've never heard these guys breath a word of Ben being an elite QB.

    Brees elite with no Super Bowl rings and Ben the step child with two Super Bowl rings.

  4. #24

    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by Flasteel
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn
    Dutch asked me to post this...and soooo the fun begins.

    Give me Roethlisberger over Peyton Manning
    It is undoubtedly a very small group that would take Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to lead their team instead of Peyton Manning of the Indianapolis Colts. But even if you do fall into that select group, there is a good chance that you wonít admit it.

    After all, admitting such a thing publicly would only invite ridicule. If you live in southwestern Pennsylvania, as I do, you would be considered a homer to state such an opinion. Your credibility would immediately be attacked. You could be chastised, mocked, publicly humiliated, and perhaps even spat upon for considering such argument.

    Yet, through it all, the facts are clearly on your side. The following is a question-and-answer exchange I recently had with a Manning backer on this subject. Enjoy!

    Manning Backer: You only want to talk about Ben having more rings up to this point. That doesnít tell the whole story. Ben having more rings has nothing to do with him being better than Manning. Canít you see this?

    Dutch Wydo: Roethlisberger has one more Super Bowl victory up to this point because he out-performed Manning at Indianapolis in the 2005 playoffs. Roethlisberger came out throwing and put two early touchdowns on the board and staked his team to what turned out to be an insurmountable 14-point lead. That was the difference in the game and the reason why Ben has one more ring up to this point.

    MB: Ok, How many rings do you think Manning would have if he was the quarterback of the Steelers this decade?

    DW: Just one. I donít believe he could have won a Super Bowl behind the current offensive line of the Steelers.

    MB: Cmon! Donít you see that Ben has been in a better situation in Pittsburgh?

    DW: Incorrect. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl with an undrafted free agent at running back. He was throwing to guys like Cedric Wilson and Antwaan Randle El. He even had a rookie Tight End starting on that Ď05 team. This is hardly Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark.

    MB: Iím sorry, but you need to consider everything. Just look at the stats. What do the stats tell you?

    DW: Iím sorry, but maybe you have not considered everything. What if Roethlisberger had played his home games in a dome? Ben has played seven indoor games and boasts a passer rating of 113. He has 14 TD passes against only five interceptions. Roethlisberger has completed 68% of his throws indoors at a majestic 9.4 yards per attempt. Unfortunately, he is stuck playing at Heinz Field and has to endure mud, rain, snow, and wind, along with a revolving set of receivers throughout most of his career. Yeah, great situation! Now, let me ask you a question. If you take both quarterbacks and have to choose one to play a road game, which one would you take?

    MB: I think the answer is obvious. Iím taking Manning, as he is superior.

    DW: Really? What evidence do you have to support that? Roethlisberger has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Manning has a 91.6 career road passer rating. Your perception that Manning is so superior simply does not equal reality, my friend.

    MB: You just donít get it do you? Ben has had a great running game in place for most of his career.

    DW: Edgerrin James rushed for more than 1,500 yards four times throughout his time with Manning and the Colts. Roethlisberger has never had a 1,500-yard running back.

    MB: Defense, Defense, Defense, Dutch. Peyton would have won at least three Super Bowls with that Steeler defense. Címon! Canít you see this?

    DW: In eight post season losses, Manningís offense averaged just 13 points per game. As to how many points his offense scored in each loss, here is the list: 16, 17, 0, 14, 3, 18, 24, 17. Now ask yourself a question. Was his defense really the problem? Even in two playoff losses to the Patriots and Jaguars, Roethlisbergerís offense was able to put 29 and 27 points, respectively, on the scoreboard.

    MB: So you are trying to say that Ben is the reason they won their playoff games?

    DW: Roethlisberger has the highest postseason third-down passer rating of 121.5 last five years. Should I credit bad word LeBeau for that? Besides, before this postseason started, Roethlisberger had a better passer rating, more yards per attempt, and a higher completion percentage in the postseason than Manning. You clearly underrate Roethlisberger.

    MB: Are you trying to say the Colts defense has been better than the Steelers defense?

    DW: No. But Indianapolisí defense has been the beneficiary of 210 turnovers since 2003. The Steelers defense has collected 190. The Colts are 16-3 over last three seasons when their defense gets two turnovers. The Steelers are 10-4. Getting defensive turnovers can be quite helpful to a quarterback as they will get short fields to work with and convert them into quick scores. This year, the New Orleans Saints averaged 11 points per game off turnovers. The Steelers cornerbacks didnít have an interception until the final week of the regular season. In fact, the Steelers offense this season projected to score 23.8 points per game based on yards and turnover differential. A lack of defensive turnovers and consistently poor special teams held back a Steeler offense averaging 6.2 yards per play more than anything else.

    MB: Go ask NFL coaches who they would rather have, Peyton Manning or Ben.

    DW: Go ask NFL coaches who they would rather have, Jeff Hartwig or Jeff Saturday?

    MB: Dutch, look at how Pierre Garcon has played at Wide Receiver this season for the Colts. Donít you see that is because of Peyton Manning? Peyton Manning makes wide receivers.

    DW: Considering the success that Steelers receiver Mike Wallace had this year, the success that Heath Miller had as a rookie, not to mention the performance Santonio Holmes had the last half of 2006. I guess that means Roethlisberger makes wide receivers, too. Also note that Nate Washington averaged 16 yards per reception with Roethlisberger as his quarterback. The averaged fell to twelve per reception this season with the Tennessee Titans. Again, Roethlisberger makes wide receivers.

    MB: I think most would agree that Manning is perhaps the greatest quarterback of all time.

    DW: To be the best of all time, then you would have to project to be the best in previous generations. Considering that Manningís offense is built around great timing with his receivers, Iím not convinced he would have able to achieve so much success, say, in the 1970s when his receivers would have had their heads taken off and he was forced to scramble around and make plays. That is not his game. In fact, it wasnít until Colts General Manager Bill Polian convinced the NFL in 2004 to strictly enforce the five-yard chuck rule so that his boy could get through the playoffs. Roethlisberger is great right now and would have been great in the 1960s or 1970s.

    MB: Look at how Manning attacked the Jets backup cornerback when they lost their starting corner to injury. Manning is a student of the game.

    DW: Of course. Manning is the only quarterback in the NFL that has the wisdom to immediately go after a back up corner who just came into the game. Heís a genius.

    MB: Who do you like in the Super Bowl?

    DW: Colts 38-24. It's all about Manning!
    Something is not right here. One of the things that used to make me laugh was Wydo's intent to write a book. The reason I found it so funny was that he had a somewhat poor grasp of grammar and spelling, and always seemed to screw up the proper use of "their", "they're", and "there". His writing was also disjointed at times, with very little flow. It was something he admitted and said he would rely on editing to correct.

    I never thought that Wydo was a stupid man, but I find it difficult to believe that he has improved his writing this much. However, I will say that the article has some unmistakable Dutchisms. There are plenty of stats, mention of the average per attempt stat, and it was quite heavy on the man-love for Ben. I'm not sure what's going on here, but something doesn't seem right with this.

    By the way Shawn, what's going on with you singing MSM's praises in one thread and now delivering messages supposedly written by him in this one?

    Just askin'.
    You have a good eye but I wouldn't read too much into it. I am not here for douchebaggery...and claiming Dutch wrote something I wrote would be exactly that. Dutch became a large resource for my board. We came to a mutual respect for one another. We email each other quite a bit and discuss boards and football.

    I never asked Dutch directly how his writing improved so drastically but it's obvious that it has. You do know he writes for the Herald now? I have links to most of his articles. So, he either took some classes or has help of some sort. His writing and radio show got Ben's agents attention...Ben listened to his show...read some of his articles and granted him an interview. Have you heard the interview? It's on Dutch's site. I think you will be surprised.

    As for why I posted his post...well because he asked me to. I emailed him asking him to come back over...he said he has been banned and his ip banned so unless John decides to let him back...he won't be. So, if he isn't unbanned you will probably see a few articles posted for discussion.

    I know some of you don't want him back. I know some of you don't like the guy. And unless he could come back without drama it won't happen.

  5. #25
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    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by BATMAN
    Ben will never get the playing respect he deserves in my opinion. I think many of these guys that now spew the NFL talk via the media, do not care for the Steelers.

    no, I think it's because manning is an individual on an average team, ben is a part of a TEAM

    Also maybe Ben is the snob or buttplug many seem to claim he is ? Maybe he has turned off the sports writers in his favor ? Before you get yourselves in lather, just throwing stuff out here for the debate of it all.

    No i don't think this is it either

    Manning had taken a team that never did too well since their move from Baltimore and turned things around. Ben is on a team that had its share of Super Bowl appearances and mostly always in the playoffs prior to his signing.

    exactly, our FORMULA has shown that with even below average players at one or two positions our team is able to still get it done

    Manning sure is good but so is Ben. I think Ben fits our Steelers and I doubt Manning could survive behind our line. Maybe Manning would make our line less noticable ?

    I think he would. of course we would be a lot less exciting

    After all my talk and nothing really said, I have this question or ask your thoughts about this.

    Who's better, Ben or Drew Brees ? Right now on the NFL channel they're all in a twist over Drew Brees being an elite QB.

    I love drew brees, the guy is amazing. has he done more with less than any other qb in recent history? I think

    WTH ? Ben has won two Super Bowls and I've never heard these guys breath a word of Ben being an elite QB.

    It's because we have so many good players and our team is always good and you can't just say it's one guy.

    Brees elite with no Super Bowl rings and Ben the step child with two Super Bowl rings.

    this is alot of the "story" he was discarded went to one of the worst teams in teh NFL and turns them around. then katrina hits, tell me it doesn't make you want them to win!
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  6. #26

    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Btw Shawn, there's a good deal of Ben bashing that takes place on this forum from time to time...mostly by Colts fans and by one super-douchey 49ers fan: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/vb ... prune=&f=8

    You should tell Wydo to get hisself over there.



    (I typed "hisself" purposely...it just seems appropriate)
    I'll let him know...I'm sure he could ruffle a few feathers over there.

  7. #27

    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    shawn, the problem with have dutch here is he doesn't know how to have a debate. some people can't debate without getting there emotions in the way. if he comes here, we should make him promise to NEVER debate anything related to Ben. he only see's what he wants to see when it comes to him.
    It doesn't look like he will be back unless he masters the art of using a proxy.

  8. #28
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    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Ben is a good QB but Manning is better. I know what I see what my own two eyes.

    Manning will be mentioned in the same breath with the greatest QB's of all time. Ben will probably fall in the next tier of QB's. Only time will tell if that will be good enough to get into the HOF.

  9. #29

    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Wait. When Peyton loses the Colts average 13 points. A "top five defense" will not fix that. Peyton is losing those games, not the defense.

    Peyton is a great regular season QB. This makes his chokes more prominent. Peyton has had all of ONE good playoff run. THIS ONE. Even on his last SB run his play tanked compared to the regular season.

    And this is the point. Rings alone are not the issue. Peyton does not get outscored in shootouts because of a porous defense. A QB can play well in a loss. PEYTONS PERSONAL PLAY STINKING is WHY the Colts lose playoff games.

    13 points per loss. It aint the loss, it is Peytons 13 in losses. I bet Kurt Warner averages double that in postseason losses.

    If Peyton played playoff games like he does the regular season the Colts would be a DYNASTY.

    If you put Peyton on the less talented Steeler offense and he scores 13, he aint getting no ring no matter how good the D is.

    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    it's all about the situation. if ben was in INDY he would have a ton of stats but no superbowls. there isn't any balance to that team. If peyton were here he would have more superbowls but i thnk he'd still have a ton of stats.. Pittsburgh is a much more balanced TEAM both offensively and defensively. give peyton manning a top 5 defense every year and i gaurantee that he has more rings. and honestly I don't think manning has such a good offensive line. I think they look really good because he makes the fastest reads in the NFL and can get teh ball out before there is any pressure. ben would still take 50 sacks in INDY because he'd look for the big play instead of taking the underneath stuff that manning takes.

  10. #30
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    Re: Give me Roethlisberger over Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Lemming
    Wait. When Peyton loses the Colts average 13 points. A "top five defense" will not fix that. Peyton is losing those games, not the defense.

    Peyton is a great regular season QB. This makes his chokes more prominent. Peyton has had all of ONE good playoff run. THIS ONE. Even on his last SB run his play tanked compared to the regular season.

    And this is the point. Rings alone are not the issue. Peyton does not get outscored in shootouts because of a porous defense. A QB can play well in a loss. PEYTONS PERSONAL PLAY STINKING is WHY the Colts lose playoff games.

    13 points per loss. It aint the loss, it is Peytons 13 in losses. I bet Kurt Warner averages double that in postseason losses.

    If Peyton played playoff games like he does the regular season the Colts would be a DYNASTY.

    If you put Peyton on the less talented Steeler offense and he scores 13, he aint getting no ring no matter how good the D is.

    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    it's all about the situation. if ben was in INDY he would have a ton of stats but no superbowls. there isn't any balance to that team. If peyton were here he would have more superbowls but i thnk he'd still have a ton of stats.. Pittsburgh is a much more balanced TEAM both offensively and defensively. give peyton manning a top 5 defense every year and i gaurantee that he has more rings. and honestly I don't think manning has such a good offensive line. I think they look really good because he makes the fastest reads in the NFL and can get teh ball out before there is any pressure. ben would still take 50 sacks in INDY because he'd look for the big play instead of taking the underneath stuff that manning takes.
    so you're saying that Ben hasn't had any bad games that HE lost. HELL he almost lost our super bowl and he did lose the afccg (and nearly the game before that against the jets). Ben has lost his fair share of games due to poor play in half the amount of games.
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