Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 32

Thread: Ben not a Red Zone QB

  1. #21
    Backup
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY (by way of WV)
    Posts
    431

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by NWNewell
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler Mafia

    OK...I will. The Miami game is a bad example becase they are a descent team. Not a great team, but a descent one. However, how many points did we leave on the field in the Oakland game, or the Cleveland Game, or the KC game. Are you telling me that these bottom feeder teams could have powered their way back into the game and recover a 21+ point deficit? I don't think so. Now granted, our D made Miami's 3rd string QB look like the second coming of Dan Marino with some of those passes. But you have to admit, in every game we played, the offense would start out looking dominant and would then go dormant like Bermuda Grass in the winter time. The Defense.....they were much more like a tall fescue.
    This is why it's call a team sport, ladies. Total production from all phases for 60 minutes has to exceed the other teams production.

    It's not rocket science and can be twisted any way you want. But simply put both offense and defensive overall production this year was simply a bit better than average this year, making the total team accomplishments, only a bit better than average. The bit better than average 9-7 record and missing the playoffs.

    One or the other, preferably not both, has to pick up to get the total team production back to playoff caliber.
    What are you babbling about?
    <a href=http://imgcash5.imageshack.us/img356/1595/smuj2.jpg target=_blank>http://imgcash5.imageshack.us/img356/1595/smuj2.jpg</a>
    ~Props to AS, my sig Consigliere~

    "Even the strongest man needs friends.... Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
    ~ Don Lucchesi to Vincent

  2. #22
    Backup
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY (by way of WV)
    Posts
    431

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler Mafia
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz

    sorry buddy but our O could never score enough points to protect a lead with the D this year. you could change the 3 or 10 to 14 or 21...once the fourth quarter started all bets were off.

    We were up 17 points against Miami and people still say our O failed because they went 3 and out on one series and Miami put up 14 in 3 minutes. Regardless.. it's 17 freaking points.. luckily they got the TO's we seldom saw this year.


    now take that
    OK...I will. The Miami game is a bad example becase they are a descent team. Not a great team, but a descent one. However, how many points did we leave on the field in the Oakland game, or the Cleveland Game, or the KC game. Are you telling me that these bottom feeder teams could have powered their way back into the game and recover a 21+ point deficit? I don't think so. Now granted, our D made Miami's 3rd string QB look like the second coming of Dan Marino with some of those passes. But you have to admit, in every game we played, the offense would start out looking dominant and would then go dormant like Bermuda Grass in the winter time. The Defense.....they were much more like a tall fescue.
    Mafia... please ignore the "now take that" I was going to add that on to the end of a sentence, ..now take that stat and.. but I thought I erased it.

    Oakland has a good D.. the O though??? and we kept scoring TD's in the Oakland game but the Raiders kept marching right back down...

    KC.. we gave up a ST's TD and Ben had issues in the red.. I think Heath also had an inexcusable drop for an INT... all that and we still had a chance to win... but the 4th quarter D gave up crucial plays to another sub par offensive team.

    24 or 27 points is more then enough to beat KC.

    Offensive rankings
    KC is 25th and scored 20 second half points
    Oakland is 31th and scored 21 points in the 4th

    I'll take leads and an offense having a hard time adjusting with the lead over a D who can't stop the Bears making a 3rd & 18, the Chiefs turned a 3rd & 26, the Raiders 3rd & 25 & even the Browns made a 3rd &18, Miami turning a 2nd 20 and Baltimore having 3rd and 20 and getting 60 yards the next 2 plays.
    No problem Felt. I was doing my best Lee Corso impersonation with the "Not so Fast my friend" remark. I thought you were playing the part of Kirk Herbstreet.

    Now, while I agree that 27 points should be enough to beat both KC and Oakland, we still could of had much more, especially against those two teams. We played down to our competitioin this year. In those two games we could have easily put up 40 points and put the game so far out of reach that any thought of a comeback would have been useless.

    The D gave up a lot of points in the final quarters and we all now see that we are not a deep team in the secondary or on the line. However, unlike the the offense, I believe the probelms on D was not schematic but more of personnel and their "me first" mind set rather than "for the team"

    In an article in the Post Gazette I read today, I found this which goes along with what I have said about or D this year.

    "I think there are going to be a lot of changes, I really do," Harrison said. "It's going to be a little of both. We'll see."

    But Harrison, one of two Steelers named last week to the AFC Pro Bowl team, intimated that there needs to be another change next season, as well -- in the attitude of some players. He said the Steelers appeared more interested in personal goals than team goals this season.

    "I think at times we played as a team and, at times, we played as individuals," he said. "Sometimes it may have seemed that some individual things were more important than actually the whole concept of the team."
    <a href=http://imgcash5.imageshack.us/img356/1595/smuj2.jpg target=_blank>http://imgcash5.imageshack.us/img356/1595/smuj2.jpg</a>
    ~Props to AS, my sig Consigliere~

    "Even the strongest man needs friends.... Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
    ~ Don Lucchesi to Vincent

  3. #23
    Pro Bowler
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,149

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    You know, it's really impossible to divorce analysis of your O from your D (and vice-versa). There's a debate raging over which is more of a cause. There is cause and effect working in both directions. I do think that the O has under-produced more relative to its potential. Our D produced much closer to its no-Troy and no-Aaron Smith potential.

  4. #24
    Pro Bowler skyhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,026

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    If this team repairs its underaverage offensive line, it goes to the SB next year.

  5. #25
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    14,328

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelAbility
    You know, it's really impossible to divorce analysis of your O from your D (and vice-versa). There's a debate raging over which is more of a cause. There is cause and effect working in both directions. I do think that the O has under-produced more relative to its potential. Our D produced much closer to its no-Troy and no-Aaron Smith potential.
    for 3 quarters.. but in the 4th our D went to places I never thought possible

  6. #26
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Stuart, FL
    Posts
    9,215

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Quote Originally Posted by msp26505
    I don't think it's too much to ask to expect your $100 million QB to identify problems within his game and attempt to make improvements in that area.

    Everybody in every profession does it.

    If Ben (and our OC, BA or otherwise) can improve this area, this offense can be truly scary with the talent already in place.
    So what you're telling me is that those numbers are indicative of Ben and only Ben?

    Dropped passes don't factor in? Passes thrown away? Tipped passes? WR is open but an O lineman misses a block, disrupting the play? Etc, etc, etc?

    Ben isn't Bugs Bunny...he's not throwing it to himself.

    That's why you can't just throw crap like that out there and say, "Ben is not a RZ QB". It's a team game.
    I knew this argument was coming. I disagree. I chose career stats, not single game or season. Over 4 yrs time and the hundreds of plays the things you suggest should balance out. The one constant is the QB. Are you suggesting a team with two MVP WRs, a pro-bowl TE are the cause of Ben's problems?

    I took a look at the Rivers, Mannings, Warners and they are all consistent (with a 10 pt spread) in the red zone.

    Face it, Ben's game has weaknesses that can be greatly help by a stronger running game. He is not a timing passer (at least does it grudgingly).
    There's the key word right there. Should. There are far too many variables to look at the numbers and say that "Ben is not a RZ QB".

    I'm not saying that he's perfect. I'm not saying that he's bad.

    What I'm saying is that you should trust your eyeballs and what you see in a game...not numbers on a page. Those numbers can mean anything. I can take those same numbers, look at the other personnel on the field and twist it to say something like "when X lineman is in/out of the game we are inconsistent in the RZ" too. And that would be every bit as "credible" as what you posted.

  7. #27
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,218

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    I will make a few more points and then shut up about it. If you ask me to accept the premise that the 'bad' numbers are due to drops, bad luck, etc. then I think you need to accept the counter argument that the 'good' numbers are equally influenced by 'lucky' plays, etc. You can't make the argument one-sided. That is why I say given the number of data points the values gravitate to the mean (a little mathematics for you).

    I was actually waiting for someone to post about the curiously low QB ratings for 1st and 3rd down, but curiously high ratings for 2nd and 4th down. It not only is influenced by the QB but more importantly it may be influenced by the playcalling. Do we follow some pattern? Passes to the TE on 1st & goal, and passes to a WR on 3rd & goal? How is Ben able to achieve >100 ratings for two downs but is mediocre for the other two downs? I am wondering if there is a propensity to run certain plays in certain situations....this is another sign of playcalling, gameplanning deficiency. The other thing is if we cannot run in the redzone, it effectively cuts the playbook in half (or in BA's case 60/40). These arguments I can accept as explanation.

  8. #28
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Stuart, FL
    Posts
    9,215

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    All I'm saying is with 22 dudes on the field, 11 on one side and 11 on the other, there aren't any numbers that will convince me it falls mainly on just one of those 22.

    Peace.

  9. #29
    Legend
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    14,328

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    When talking redzone and QB you have 10 players to blame and the OC..

    Since we all know we pass all the time most of the blame and praise will go to Ben...

    This year with low numbers he gets the blame... another year if the numbers are up he gets the praise...

    He is the QB..

  10. #30
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    3,218

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz
    When talking redzone and QB you have 10 players to blame and the OC..

    Since we all know we pass all the time most of the blame and praise will go to Ben...

    This year with low numbers he gets the blame... another year if the numbers are up he gets the praise...

    He is the QB..
    Again, these situational stats are average ratings by down over 5 yrs of play! not just this season. There have been two HCs and two OCs in this timeframe. But it has been all Ben at QB.

    OK, I will move on now.

    thanks for listening.....

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •