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Thread: Ben not a Red Zone QB

  1. #11
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    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Ben has thrown a few nice passes in the Red Zone where only his receiver could get them.






  2. #12
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    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Ben has thrown a few nice passes in the Red Zone where only his receiver could get them.





    The pass to Wallace was actually outside of the red zone by only a few yards I believe. Someone will have to check me on that, but I thought it was something like a 27 yard pass. I will give him the one to Heath last Sunday. however, even if the one to Wallace was inside the redzone, that makes what, two successful attempts out of how many this year? Not enough!
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  3. #13
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    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Wrong. BA is not a good RZ OC.

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    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Quote Originally Posted by msp26505
    I don't think it's too much to ask to expect your $100 million QB to identify problems within his game and attempt to make improvements in that area.

    Everybody in every profession does it.

    If Ben (and our OC, BA or otherwise) can improve this area, this offense can be truly scary with the talent already in place.
    So what you're telling me is that those numbers are indicative of Ben and only Ben?

    Dropped passes don't factor in? Passes thrown away? Tipped passes? WR is open but an O lineman misses a block, disrupting the play? Etc, etc, etc?

    Ben isn't Bugs Bunny...he's not throwing it to himself.

    That's why you can't just throw crap like that out there and say, "Ben is not a RZ QB". It's a team game.
    ......or, how about we generally (about 90% of the time), let RM run the ball right into the freaking teeth of the defense. Mendy has demonstrated that he can outrun and break tackles, but WTF is this always up the gut crap! It's like BA wants the run game to fail so that he can call a pass play! Dammit man!

  5. #15
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    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    [quote=Steeler Mafia]
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz
    Quote Originally Posted by steelblood
    Quote Originally Posted by "stlrz d":7cha44ge
    Quote Originally Posted by msp26505
    I don't think it's too much to ask to expect your $100 million QB to identify problems within his game and attempt to make improvements in that area.

    Everybody in every profession does it.

    If Ben (and our OC, BA or otherwise) can improve this area, this offense can be truly scary with the talent already in place.
    So what you're telling me is that those numbers are indicative of Ben and only Ben?

    Dropped passes don't factor in? Passes thrown away? Tipped passes? WR is open but an O lineman misses a block, disrupting the play? Etc, etc, etc?

    Ben isn't Bugs Bunny...he's not throwing it to himself.

    That's why you can't just throw crap like that out there and say, "Ben is not a RZ QB". It's a team game.
    The entire offense needs to improve in the red zone. With the way they are capable of moving the ball, they should be scoring more points. Ben takes to many sacks, there is no real fullback or effective short yardage package, the playcalling is poor, dropped passes, etc. Red zone offense should be priority #1 in the offseason. All of these need to improve and perhaps we need to add a player or two that will make us a better running team.
    Ben does take too many sacks in the red zone...
    but most of our problems in the red zone come down to execution and penalties..


    but we all know the red zone is not why we lost games this year.
    Not so fast my friend. Most of our problems in the red zone we due to poor playcalling and no run game, and Arians trademark. (Anyone remember the empty sets) Yes, we lost games do to pathetic ST play and the defense unable to hold a 3 or 10 point lead. However, there were way too many points left on the field this year. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. It doesn't help much when that offense sputters when it gets inside the 20s.[/quote:7cha44ge]

    sorry buddy but our O could never score enough points to protect a lead with the D this year. you could change the 3 or 10 to 14 or 21...once the fourth quarter started all bets were off.

    We were up 17 points against Miami and people still say our O failed because they went 3 and out on one series and Miami put up 14 in 3 minutes. Regardless.. it's 17 freaking points.. luckily they got the TO's we seldom saw this year.


    now take that

  6. #16
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    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    [quote=feltdizz]
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler Mafia
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz
    Quote Originally Posted by steelblood
    Quote Originally Posted by "stlrz d":drcdt1h2
    So what you're telling me is that those numbers are indicative of Ben and only Ben?

    Dropped passes don't factor in? Passes thrown away? Tipped passes? WR is open but an O lineman misses a block, disrupting the play? Etc, etc, etc?

    Ben isn't Bugs Bunny...he's not throwing it to himself.

    That's why you can't just throw crap like that out there and say, "Ben is not a RZ QB". It's a team game.
    The entire offense needs to improve in the red zone. With the way they are capable of moving the ball, they should be scoring more points. Ben takes to many sacks, there is no real fullback or effective short yardage package, the playcalling is poor, dropped passes, etc. Red zone offense should be priority #1 in the offseason. All of these need to improve and perhaps we need to add a player or two that will make us a better running team.
    Ben does take too many sacks in the red zone...
    but most of our problems in the red zone come down to execution and penalties..


    but we all know the red zone is not why we lost games this year.
    Not so fast my friend. Most of our problems in the red zone we due to poor playcalling and no run game, and Arians trademark. (Anyone remember the empty sets) Yes, we lost games do to pathetic ST play and the defense unable to hold a 3 or 10 point lead. However, there were way too many points left on the field this year. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. It doesn't help much when that offense sputters when it gets inside the 20s.
    sorry buddy but our O could never score enough points to protect a lead with the D this year. you could change the 3 or 10 to 14 or 21...once the fourth quarter started all bets were off.

    We were up 17 points against Miami and people still say our O failed because they went 3 and out on one series and Miami put up 14 in 3 minutes. Regardless.. it's 17 freaking points.. luckily they got the TO's we seldom saw this year.


    now take that[/quote:drcdt1h2]

    OK...I will. The Miami game is a bad example becase they are a descent team. Not a great team, but a descent one. However, how many points did we leave on the field in the Oakland game, or the Cleveland Game, or the KC game. Are you telling me that these bottom feeder teams could have powered their way back into the game and recover a 21+ point deficit? I don't think so. Now granted, our D made Miami's 3rd string QB look like the second coming of Dan Marino with some of those passes. But you have to admit, in every game we played, the offense would start out looking dominant and would then go dormant like Bermuda Grass in the winter time. The Defense.....they were much more like a tall fescue.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler Mafia
    Quote Originally Posted by feltdizz

    sorry buddy but our O could never score enough points to protect a lead with the D this year. you could change the 3 or 10 to 14 or 21...once the fourth quarter started all bets were off.

    We were up 17 points against Miami and people still say our O failed because they went 3 and out on one series and Miami put up 14 in 3 minutes. Regardless.. it's 17 freaking points.. luckily they got the TO's we seldom saw this year.


    now take that
    OK...I will. The Miami game is a bad example becase they are a descent team. Not a great team, but a descent one. However, how many points did we leave on the field in the Oakland game, or the Cleveland Game, or the KC game. Are you telling me that these bottom feeder teams could have powered their way back into the game and recover a 21+ point deficit? I don't think so. Now granted, our D made Miami's 3rd string QB look like the second coming of Dan Marino with some of those passes. But you have to admit, in every game we played, the offense would start out looking dominant and would then go dormant like Bermuda Grass in the winter time. The Defense.....they were much more like a tall fescue.
    Mafia... please ignore the "now take that" I was going to add that on to the end of a sentence, ..now take that stat and.. but I thought I erased it.

    Oakland has a good D.. the O though??? and we kept scoring TD's in the Oakland game but the Raiders kept marching right back down...

    KC.. we gave up a ST's TD and Ben had issues in the red.. I think Heath also had an inexcusable drop for an INT... all that and we still had a chance to win... but the 4th quarter D gave up crucial plays to another sub par offensive team.

    24 or 27 points is more then enough to beat KC.

    Offensive rankings
    KC is 25th and scored 20 second half points
    Oakland is 31th and scored 21 points in the 4th

    I'll take leads and an offense having a hard time adjusting with the lead over a D who can't stop the Bears making a 3rd & 18, the Chiefs turned a 3rd & 26, the Raiders 3rd & 25 & even the Browns made a 3rd &18, Miami turning a 2nd 20 and Baltimore having 3rd and 20 and getting 60 yards the next 2 plays.

  8. #18

    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler Mafia

    OK...I will. The Miami game is a bad example becase they are a descent team. Not a great team, but a descent one. However, how many points did we leave on the field in the Oakland game, or the Cleveland Game, or the KC game. Are you telling me that these bottom feeder teams could have powered their way back into the game and recover a 21+ point deficit? I don't think so. Now granted, our D made Miami's 3rd string QB look like the second coming of Dan Marino with some of those passes. But you have to admit, in every game we played, the offense would start out looking dominant and would then go dormant like Bermuda Grass in the winter time. The Defense.....they were much more like a tall fescue.
    This is why it's call a team sport, ladies. Total production from all phases for 60 minutes has to exceed the other teams production.

    It's not rocket science and can be twisted any way you want. But simply put both offense and defensive overall production this year was simply a bit better than average this year, making the total team accomplishments, only a bit better than average. The bit better than average 9-7 record and missing the playoffs.

    One or the other, preferably both, has to pick up to get the total team production back to playoff caliber.

  9. #19
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    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Quote Originally Posted by msp26505
    I don't think it's too much to ask to expect your $100 million QB to identify problems within his game and attempt to make improvements in that area.

    Everybody in every profession does it.

    If Ben (and our OC, BA or otherwise) can improve this area, this offense can be truly scary with the talent already in place.
    So what you're telling me is that those numbers are indicative of Ben and only Ben?

    Dropped passes don't factor in? Passes thrown away? Tipped passes? WR is open but an O lineman misses a block, disrupting the play? Etc, etc, etc?

    Ben isn't Bugs Bunny...he's not throwing it to himself.

    That's why you can't just throw crap like that out there and say, "Ben is not a RZ QB". It's a team game.
    I knew this argument was coming. I disagree. I chose career stats, not single game or season. Over 4 yrs time and the hundreds of plays the things you suggest should balance out. The one constant is the QB. Are you suggesting a team with two MVP WRs, a pro-bowl TE are the cause of Ben's problems?

    I took a look at the Rivers, Mannings, Warners and they are all consistent (with a 10 pt spread) in the red zone.

    Face it, Ben's game has weaknesses that can be greatly help by a stronger running game. He is not a timing passer (at least does it grudgingly).

  10. #20
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    Re: Ben not a Red Zone QB

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCoast
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Quote Originally Posted by msp26505
    I don't think it's too much to ask to expect your $100 million QB to identify problems within his game and attempt to make improvements in that area.

    Everybody in every profession does it.

    If Ben (and our OC, BA or otherwise) can improve this area, this offense can be truly scary with the talent already in place.
    So what you're telling me is that those numbers are indicative of Ben and only Ben?

    Dropped passes don't factor in? Passes thrown away? Tipped passes? WR is open but an O lineman misses a block, disrupting the play? Etc, etc, etc?

    Ben isn't Bugs Bunny...he's not throwing it to himself.

    That's why you can't just throw crap like that out there and say, "Ben is not a RZ QB". It's a team game.
    I knew this argument was coming. I disagree. I chose career stats, not single game or season. Over 4 yrs time and the hundreds of plays the things you suggest should balance out. The one constant is the QB. Are you suggesting a team with two MVP WRs, a pro-bowl TE are the cause of Ben's problems?

    I took a look at the Rivers, Mannings, Warners and they are all consistent (with a 10 pt spread) in the red zone.

    Face it, Ben's game has weaknesses that can be greatly help by a stronger running game. He is not a timing passer (at least does it grudgingly).
    stop throwing crap out here

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