Final Cut list from Steelers.com

[Les 74]

Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

You're bumming me out. First Wanny, now Tomlin too?

Relax,man.Colbert,I agree with,but this will only be Tomlin's second season.Cut him some slack.

[NKySteeler]

I don't necessarily blame Tomlin with this... But Colbert, yes...

...Rather disturbing to see the guy slapped with the franchise tag/transition tag being shopped around...

Now, having said that, Dan has said NUMEROUS TIMES that the head coach makes the calls. That is his philosophy... Is he talking out the side of his face, or is there some other responsibility to pass around?

[Flasteel]

Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

[SteelCrazy]

The way D Woods was hunting heads that last game makes it not surprising he got a spot on the team.

[BigBen2112]

Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

You are correct...my bad. He has been thrown to 14 times and caught 8.

Not nearly 60% dropped...and that is of course worth keeping around, especially when you gauge it in relation to the bigger part of my post which that was just a trivial example of.

The point is that the focus has been on skilled guy (like taking Baker probably for height) over guys that can keep this team going-->anyone want ANY OL/DL?

And how about all the QBs and WRs we've picked over good OL/DL since Colbert has been here? And how sucky is our OL/DL? Pretty damn sucky and certainly not very deep.

And just as an FYI, I DONT think the Steelers need to hit on all our mid/end of the draft guys, but a COUPLE would be nice. And furthermore, we DONT have to wait until the end of the draft consistently to shore up the lines...there is ZERO rule about that.

[AkronSteel]

Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

You are correct...my bad. He has been thrown to 14 times and caught 8.

Not nearly 60% dropped...and that is of course worth keeping around, especially when you gauge it in relation to the bigger part of my post which that was just a trivial example of.

The point is that the focus has been on skilled guy (like taking Baker probably for height) over guys that can keep this team going-->anyone want ANY OL/DL?

And how about all the QBs and WRs we've picked over good OL/DL since Colbert has been here? And how sucky is our OL/DL? Pretty damn sucky and certainly not very deep.

And just as an FYI, I DONT think the Steelers need to hit on all our mid/end of the draft guys, but a COUPLE would be nice. And furthermore, we DONT have to wait until the end of the draft consistently to shore up the lines...there is ZERO rule about that.

How many of those passes that were not caught were catchable? I know that he had a couple of drops, but unless this stat takes into account the passes that Lefty airmailed then I don't think it is fair to Baker.

As far as your other point, I don't know exactly what you are getting at. Kemo was drafted in 05 and is now a starter. Colon was drafted in 06 and is now a starter. Essex as drafted on 05 and is pretty solid depth at two positions (G&T). Plus the team picked up Stapleton through UDFA and he looks like he has the potential to have a solid career. Please don't tell me that you don't think that Colbert has tried to address the OL, because it is not the case. Have all the draft picks worked out, NO, but I do think there have been some solid players added to this team.

[BigBen2112]

Simply to further illustrate my point we'll go back in time a little (2 years since we cant judge this year or last year really)

2006:
3.83- Anthony Smith
3.95- Willie Reid
4.133- Orien Harris
5.164- Omar Jacobs
5.167- Charles Davis

Instead we could have selected:
3rd round: Jahri Evans- starting G
Domata Peko- starting NT
Elivs Dumervill- tweener
Ray Edwards- tweener
Rob Sims- starting G
--I contend that all of the above are better than players we have currently that those positions (except possibly the tweeners b/c it would depend on where they played in our system). Evans is better than any guard or tackle that we have and Sims is easily better than any guard we have. And we could have had any TWO of those above players.

4th round: Kyle Williams- DT
Parys Haralson- DL
Anthony Montgomery- DL
MARK ANDERSON- DL
Sorry but our DL could be much more dynamic than it is, even if many will argue that we're fine since we generate our pressure via blitz (which doesnt always work and leaves us exposed alot and since our DL fails to open up holes for our LBs we are exposed more than we should be) and our LBs.

5th round: Keith Ellison- LB
Johnny Jolly- DT
Charlie Johnson- OT
Could have had two of them as well as some other players.

Yes I know hindsight is 20/20, but in this business that is not enough.

2005:
3.93-Trai Essex
4.131-Fred Gibson
5.166-Rian Wallace

Instead:
3rd round: Nick Kaczur
Marion Barber--gotta throw in Barber and Jacobs just b/c they are so damn good
Brandon Jacobs

4th round: Chris Canty
Trent Cole

5th round: Geoff Hangartner
Jovan Haye


2004: People are going to get on me and say "WE GOT BEN" Yes we did. We got LUCKY that a couple other teams were really stupid and did some interesting things and Ben FELL into our laps. Good for us...the rest of the draft? Sucked!

2.38 Colclough...yeah!
3.75 Starks...yeah transition all the way to being traded YEAH!
5.145 Adibi...damn good one he was
6.177 Lacy
6.194 Kranchick
6.197 Caylor
GOD this draft sucked.

Instead:
Bob Sanders
Justin Smiley
Tank Johnson
Madieu Williams
Antwan Odom
Randy Starks
----------------
Bernard Berrian
Sean Locklear
Reggie Torbor
Demorrio Williams
Alex Stepanovich
Robert Geathers
----------------------
Michael Turner
DJ Hackett
Rex Hadnot
Shane Olivea

And the list goes on.

Lets say we only selected ONE player from each draft better than we did, and we wont even choose the best player out of the above:
2004: Sean Locklear
2005: Trent Cole
2006: Jahari Evans

That's only changing THREE players, not even the best available and actually BUILDING around the lines. And we'd have:
OL: Smith-Evans-???-Colon-Locklear
DL: Smith-BigSnack-Trent Cole

Our team would look MUCH better even with the above combination...and I am not going to go back any further and analyze things any longer, but you can see my point.

Its going to take a COUPLE drafts and several years to get out of this hole that we're in in terms of Line problems...and we still have to dedicate that time to build them, since we arent going to do it via FA

[BigBen2112]

Madison and Baker over Lewis and Reid were a little surprising to me.

To be completely honest, and I will get slapped for it around here, I dont think Colbert or Tomlin have a clue what they are doing.

Baker is taller, also drops 60% of the balls thrown to him...Reid is shorter and has struggled but played really well this pre-season. I see zero reason to keep Madison over Lewis, maybe Madison knows the system better?

Sorry to again be the realist I am, but I dont have a ton of faith in Colbert and Tomlin.

I don't know what Dallas Baker you've been watching, but he's made some great catches and clutch ones at that this preseason. Reid has no doubt had his best preseason, but he still didn't look nearly as good as Baker and we can't even factor in the noise that Baker has made in practice since last year (reportedly).

Drops 60% of his passes? Laughable. Even trying to exaggerate in making a point, you're waaaaaay of the mark on that one Benny.

You are correct...my bad. He has been thrown to 14 times and caught 8.

Not nearly 60% dropped...and that is of course worth keeping around, especially when you gauge it in relation to the bigger part of my post which that was just a trivial example of.

The point is that the focus has been on skilled guy (like taking Baker probably for height) over guys that can keep this team going-->anyone want ANY OL/DL?

And how about all the QBs and WRs we've picked over good OL/DL since Colbert has been here? And how sucky is our OL/DL? Pretty damn sucky and certainly not very deep.

And just as an FYI, I DONT think the Steelers need to hit on all our mid/end of the draft guys, but a COUPLE would be nice. And furthermore, we DONT have to wait until the end of the draft consistently to shore up the lines...there is ZERO rule about that.

How many of those passes that were not caught were catchable? I know that he had a couple of drops, but unless this stat takes into account the passes that Lefty airmailed then I don't think it is fair to Baker.

As far as your other point, I don't know exactly what you are getting at. Kemo was drafted in 05 and is now a starter. Colon was drafted in 06 and is now a starter. Essex as drafted on 05 and is pretty solid depth at two positions (G&T). Plus the team picked up Stapleton through UDFA and he looks like he has the potential to have a solid career. Please don't tell me that you don't think that Colbert has tried to address the OL, because it is not the case. Have all the draft picks worked out, NO, but I do think there have been some solid players added to this team.

So the fact that both of our lines are absolutely horrible and a backup who we are now attempting to trade is being paid the most on the line (beyond smith) is noone's fault at all? Bad luck?

[RuthlessBurgher]

Simply to further illustrate my point we'll go back in time a little (2 years since we cant judge this year or last year really)

2006:
3.83- Anthony Smith
3.95- Willie Reid
4.133- Orien Harris
5.164- Omar Jacobs
5.167- Charles Davis

Instead we could have selected:
3rd round: Jahri Evans- starting G
Domata Peko- starting NT
Elivs Dumervill- tweener
Ray Edwards- tweener
Rob Sims- starting G
--I contend that all of the above are better than players we have currently that those positions (except possibly the tweeners b/c it would depend on where they played in our system). Evans is better than any guard or tackle that we have and Sims is easily better than any guard we have. And we could have had any TWO of those above players.

4th round: Kyle Williams- DT
Parys Haralson- DL
Anthony Montgomery- DL
MARK ANDERSON- DL
Sorry but our DL could be much more dynamic than it is, even if many will argue that we're fine since we generate our pressure via blitz (which doesnt always work and leaves us exposed alot and since our DL fails to open up holes for our LBs we are exposed more than we should be) and our LBs.

5th round: Keith Ellison- LB
Johnny Jolly- DT
Charlie Johnson- OT
Could have had two of them as well as some other players.

Yes I know hindsight is 20/20, but in this business that is not enough.

2005:
3.93-Trai Essex
4.131-Fred Gibson
5.166-Rian Wallace

Instead:
3rd round: Nick Kaczur
Marion Barber--gotta throw in Barber and Jacobs just b/c they are so damn good
Brandon Jacobs

4th round: Chris Canty
Trent Cole

5th round: Geoff Hangartner
Jovan Haye


2004: People are going to get on me and say "WE GOT BEN" Yes we did. We got LUCKY that a couple other teams were really stupid and did some interesting things and Ben FELL into our laps. Good for us...the rest of the draft? Sucked!

2.38 Colclough...yeah!
3.75 Starks...yeah transition all the way to being traded YEAH!
5.145 Adibi...damn good one he was
6.177 Lacy
6.194 Kranchick
6.197 Caylor
GOD this draft sucked.

Instead:
Bob Sanders
Justin Smiley
Tank Johnson
Madieu Williams
Antwan Odom
Randy Starks
----------------
Bernard Berrian
Sean Locklear
Reggie Torbor
Demorrio Williams
Alex Stepanovich
Robert Geathers
----------------------
Michael Turner
DJ Hackett
Rex Hadnot
Shane Olivea

And the list goes on.

Lets say we only selected ONE player from each draft better than we did, and we wont even choose the best player out of the above:
2004: Sean Locklear
2005: Trent Cole
2006: Jahari Evans

That's only changing THREE players, not even the best available and actually BUILDING around the lines. And we'd have:
OL: Smith-Evans-???-Colon-Locklear
DL: Smith-BigSnack-Trent Cole

Our team would look MUCH better even with the above combination...and I am not going to go back any further and analyze things any longer, but you can see my point.

Its going to take a COUPLE drafts and several years to get out of this hole that we're in in terms of Line problems...and we still have to dedicate that time to build them, since we arent going to do it via FA

You can play the "look at the sucky day two picks" game with any team in the league. Look at the day two picks of, let's say, the New England Patriots and the mighty Scott Pioli over that same 3 year span. Other than the kicker they got in round 4 in '06, there is not another player taken on day two of these three drafts that is a regular contributor to their team. They hit on all three of their first round picks (Wilfork, Mankins, Maroney), plus 3 other current starters (Watson, Kaczur, Hobbs). By comparison, we hit on all three of our first round picks (Roethlisberger, Miller, Holmes), plus 2 other current starters (Colon and Kemoeatu) plus two other top regular contributors with some starting experience over the past few years (McFadden and Starks). Fire Pioli!!!

2006 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
2 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida
3 86 David Thomas TE Texas
4 106 Garrett Mills RB Tulsa
4 118 Stephen Gostkowski K Memphis
5 136 Ryan O'Callaghan T California
6 191 Jeremy Mincey LB Florida
6 205 Dan Stevenson G Notre Dame
6 206 Le Kevin Smith DT Nebraska
7 229 Willie Andrews CB Baylor

2005 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State
3 84 Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa State
3 100 Nick Kaczur T Toledo
4 133 James Sanders SAF Fresno State
5 170 Ryan Claridge LB Nevada-Las Vegas
7 230 Matt Cassel QB USC
7 255 Andy Stokes TE William Penn

2004 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.)
1 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
2 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
3 95 Guss Scott SAF Florida
4 113 Dexter Reid SAF North Carolina
4 128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas
5 164 P.K. Sam WR Florida State
7 233 Christian Morton CB Illinois

[ikestops85]

Simply to further illustrate my point we'll go back in time a little (2 years since we cant judge this year or last year really)

2006:
3.83- Anthony Smith
3.95- Willie Reid
4.133- Orien Harris
5.164- Omar Jacobs
5.167- Charles Davis

Instead we could have selected:
3rd round: Jahri Evans- starting G
Domata Peko- starting NT
Elivs Dumervill- tweener
Ray Edwards- tweener
Rob Sims- starting G
--I contend that all of the above are better than players we have currently that those positions (except possibly the tweeners b/c it would depend on where they played in our system). Evans is better than any guard or tackle that we have and Sims is easily better than any guard we have. And we could have had any TWO of those above players.

4th round: Kyle Williams- DT
Parys Haralson- DL
Anthony Montgomery- DL
MARK ANDERSON- DL
Sorry but our DL could be much more dynamic than it is, even if many will argue that we're fine since we generate our pressure via blitz (which doesnt always work and leaves us exposed alot and since our DL fails to open up holes for our LBs we are exposed more than we should be) and our LBs.

5th round: Keith Ellison- LB
Johnny Jolly- DT
Charlie Johnson- OT
Could have had two of them as well as some other players.

Yes I know hindsight is 20/20, but in this business that is not enough.

2005:
3.93-Trai Essex
4.131-Fred Gibson
5.166-Rian Wallace

Instead:
3rd round: Nick Kaczur
Marion Barber--gotta throw in Barber and Jacobs just b/c they are so damn good
Brandon Jacobs

4th round: Chris Canty
Trent Cole

5th round: Geoff Hangartner
Jovan Haye


2004: People are going to get on me and say "WE GOT BEN" Yes we did. We got LUCKY that a couple other teams were really stupid and did some interesting things and Ben FELL into our laps. Good for us...the rest of the draft? Sucked!

2.38 Colclough...yeah!
3.75 Starks...yeah transition all the way to being traded YEAH!
5.145 Adibi...damn good one he was
6.177 Lacy
6.194 Kranchick
6.197 Caylor
GOD this draft sucked.

Instead:
Bob Sanders
Justin Smiley
Tank Johnson
Madieu Williams
Antwan Odom
Randy Starks
----------------
Bernard Berrian
Sean Locklear
Reggie Torbor
Demorrio Williams
Alex Stepanovich
Robert Geathers
----------------------
Michael Turner
DJ Hackett
Rex Hadnot
Shane Olivea

And the list goes on.

Lets say we only selected ONE player from each draft better than we did, and we wont even choose the best player out of the above:
2004: Sean Locklear
2005: Trent Cole
2006: Jahari Evans

That's only changing THREE players, not even the best available and actually BUILDING around the lines. And we'd have:
OL: Smith-Evans-???-Colon-Locklear
DL: Smith-BigSnack-Trent Cole

Our team would look MUCH better even with the above combination...and I am not going to go back any further and analyze things any longer, but you can see my point.

Its going to take a COUPLE drafts and several years to get out of this hole that we're in in terms of Line problems...and we still have to dedicate that time to build them, since we arent going to do it via FA

You can play the "look at the sucky day two picks" game with any team in the league. Look at the day two picks of, let's say, the New England Patriots and the mighty Scott Pioli over that same 3 year span. Other than the kicker they got in round 4 in '06, there is not another player taken on day two of these three drafts that is a regular contributor to their team. They hit on all three of their first round picks (Wilfork, Mankins, Maroney), plus 3 other current starters (Watson, Kaczur, Hobbs). By comparison, we hit on all three of our first round picks (Roethlisberger, Miller, Holmes), plus 2 other current starters (Colon and Kemoeatu) plus two other top regular contributors with some starting experience over the past few years (McFadden and Starks). Fire Pioli!!!

2006 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota
2 36 Chad Jackson WR Florida
3 86 David Thomas TE Texas
4 106 Garrett Mills RB Tulsa
4 118 Stephen Gostkowski K Memphis
5 136 Ryan O'Callaghan T California
6 191 Jeremy Mincey LB Florida
6 205 Dan Stevenson G Notre Dame
6 206 Le Kevin Smith DT Nebraska
7 229 Willie Andrews CB Baylor

2005 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Logan Mankins G Fresno State
3 84 Ellis Hobbs CB Iowa State
3 100 Nick Kaczur T Toledo
4 133 James Sanders SAF Fresno State
5 170 Ryan Claridge LB Nevada-Las Vegas
7 230 Matt Cassel QB USC
7 255 Andy Stokes TE William Penn

2004 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.)
1 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia
2 63 Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
3 95 Guss Scott SAF Florida
4 113 Dexter Reid SAF North Carolina
4 128 Cedric Cobbs RB Arkansas
5 164 P.K. Sam WR Florida State
7 233 Christian Morton CB Illinois

You forgot to add how old they are on defense. No way this team can be a consistent winner. They are obviously just a one year wonder.

Sorry Ben but even I could be a GM if I could see 2 years into the future to see how a player would turn out. I think we all agree that our O-line is a weakness and we lack depth on the D-line. The FO has to address these issues and address them soon but I don't think the sky is falling just yet.