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Thread: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

  1. #1
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    ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    [url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3538393[/url]

    Here is the way the fans voted:

    1) Who is the greatest player in Steelers history?

    42.6% Terry Bradshaw, QB (1970-83):
    Steelers all-time leading passer with 27,989 yards and two-time Super Bowl MVP.

    25.1% Joe Greene, DT (1969-81):
    ''Mean Joe'' was a leader of the ''Steel Curtain'' defense.

    11.6% Jack Lambert, LB (1974-84):
    Lambert had 28 career interceptions and more than 1,400 tackles.

    6.7% Franco Harris, RB (1972-83):
    Steelers all-time leading rusher with 11,950 yards and MVP of Super Bowl IX.

    4.5% Jerome Bettis, RB (1996-2005):
    "The Bus" is second all time on the Steelers in rushing (10,571).

    3.4% Mike Webster, C (1974-8:
    A nine-time Pro Bowler and 10-time All-Pro selection.

    3.0% Lynn Swann, WR (1974-82):
    First wide receiver to earn Super Bowl MVP honors.

    1.8% Jack Ham, LB (1971-82):
    Regarded as one of the greatest outside linebackers.

    0.9% Mel Blount, CB (1970-83):
    Steelers all-time leader in interceptions with 57.

    0.5% John Stallworth, WR (1974-87):
    Second all time on the Steelers in receiving (8,723 yards).
    Here is AFC North blogger James Walker's response. I agree that Bradshaw would not have been my choice. Although I am a big fan of some of the underappreciated guys in this poll like Blount and Ham, you have to admit that Mean Joe was the rock that held everything together on the greatest defense football has ever seen. And he gave that kid his jersey in exchange for a Coke. C'mon now.

    Pittsburgh Steelers: Franchise player

    August 18, 2008 1:05 PM

    Posted by ESPN.com's James Walker

    Readers' pick: Terry Bradshaw, QB

    Terry Bradshaw certainly is the greatest quarterback in Pittsburgh Steelers history.

    But the "Blonde Bomber" is not the greatest overall player in the franchise's history.

    The top four players -- Bradshaw, defensive lineman Joe Greene, linebacker Jack Lambert and running back Franco Harris -- are solid choices by Steelers fans. But the ordering is off.

    Bradshaw was a winner in every sense of the word, and he was at his best in big games. But Bradshaw's career numbers are not as overwhelming as one would think.

    Bradshaw only completed 51.9 percent of his passes in 14 seasons. He had five years of 20 interceptions or more, including his rookie year when Bradshaw threw six touchdowns and 24 interceptions.

    Overall Bradshaw has just two more touchdowns (212) during his career than interceptions (210). There were many seasons when Bradshaw was merely an average -- and at times below average -- quarterback.

    Green, Lambert and Harris played at a higher level for more seasons than Bradshaw, and that trio deserved much higher consideration.

    The glamour position of quarterback often gets most of the credit for winning championships, and this particular voting reeks of a popularity contest.
    The oddest choices were probably a tie between New Orleans and Baltimore.

    In 40 seasons of football in 'Nawlins, the best the Saints could come up with was Bobby Hebert? Are you kidding me? In 7 seasons with the Saints and 4 with the Falcons, I still think his career highlight is when George Costanza thought his last name was fun to pronounce in a Seinfeld episode. You'd think that if NFL Network was dumb enough to say the Saints had the greatest LB corps of all time (what a crock) that at least one of those guys, Pat Swilling, Rickey Jackson, Sam Mills, and Vaughn Johnson, would get more votes from fans than "A Bear."

    And to all those Raven fans that were delusional enough to think that Ray Lewis should be considered an all-time great LB or that Jonathan Ogden is the best left tackle of all time, you voted for a kicker as your greatest player. I thought it was somewhat embarrassing when Gary Anderson was named the Steeler team MVP in 1983, but at least a kicker is not considered our all-time best player.

    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  2. #2
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    Re: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    [url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3538393[/url]

    Here is the way the fans voted:

    1) Who is the greatest player in Steelers history?

    42.6% Terry Bradshaw, QB (1970-83):
    Steelers all-time leading passer with 27,989 yards and two-time Super Bowl MVP.

    25.1% Joe Greene, DT (1969-81):
    ''Mean Joe'' was a leader of the ''Steel Curtain'' defense.

    11.6% Jack Lambert, LB (1974-84):
    Lambert had 28 career interceptions and more than 1,400 tackles.

    6.7% Franco Harris, RB (1972-83):
    Steelers all-time leading rusher with 11,950 yards and MVP of Super Bowl IX.

    4.5% Jerome Bettis, RB (1996-2005):
    "The Bus" is second all time on the Steelers in rushing (10,571).

    3.4% Mike Webster, C (1974-8:
    A nine-time Pro Bowler and 10-time All-Pro selection.

    3.0% Lynn Swann, WR (1974-82):
    First wide receiver to earn Super Bowl MVP honors.

    1.8% Jack Ham, LB (1971-82):
    Regarded as one of the greatest outside linebackers.

    0.9% Mel Blount, CB (1970-83):
    Steelers all-time leader in interceptions with 57.

    0.5% John Stallworth, WR (1974-87):
    Second all time on the Steelers in receiving (8,723 yards).
    Here is AFC North blogger James Walker's response. I agree that Bradshaw would not have been my choice. Although I am a big fan of some of the underappreciated guys in this poll like Blount and Ham, you have to admit that Mean Joe was the rock that held everything together on the greatest defense football has ever seen. And he gave that kid his jersey in exchange for a Coke. C'mon now.

    [quote:1qbjtxae]Pittsburgh Steelers: Franchise player

    August 18, 2008 1:05 PM

    Posted by ESPN.com's James Walker

    Readers' pick: Terry Bradshaw, QB

    Terry Bradshaw certainly is the greatest quarterback in Pittsburgh Steelers history.

    But the "Blonde Bomber" is not the greatest overall player in the franchise's history.

    The top four players -- Bradshaw, defensive lineman Joe Greene, linebacker Jack Lambert and running back Franco Harris -- are solid choices by Steelers fans. But the ordering is off.

    Bradshaw was a winner in every sense of the word, and he was at his best in big games. But Bradshaw's career numbers are not as overwhelming as one would think.

    Bradshaw only completed 51.9 percent of his passes in 14 seasons. He had five years of 20 interceptions or more, including his rookie year when Bradshaw threw six touchdowns and 24 interceptions.

    Overall Bradshaw has just two more touchdowns (212) during his career than interceptions (210). There were many seasons when Bradshaw was merely an average -- and at times below average -- quarterback.

    Green, Lambert and Harris played at a higher level for more seasons than Bradshaw, and that trio deserved much higher consideration.

    The glamour position of quarterback often gets most of the credit for winning championships, and this particular voting reeks of a popularity contest.
    The oddest choices were probably a tie between New Orleans and Baltimore.

    In 40 seasons of football in 'Nawlins, the best the Saints could come up with was Bobby Hebert? Are you kidding me? In 7 seasons with the Saints and 4 with the Falcons, I still think his career highlight is when George Costanza thought his last name was fun to pronounce in a Seinfeld episode. You'd think that if NFL Network was dumb enough to say the Saints had the greatest LB corps of all time (what a crock) that at least one of those guys, Pat Swilling, Rickey Jackson, Sam Mills, and Vaughn Johnson, would get more votes from fans than "A Bear."

    And to all those Raven fans that were delusional enough to think that Ray Lewis should be considered an all-time great LB or that Jonathan Ogden is the best left tackle of all time, you voted for a kicker as your greatest player. I thought it was somewhat embarrassing when Gary Anderson was named the Steeler team MVP in 1983, but at least a kicker is not considered our all-time best player.

    [/quote:1qbjtxae]


    Hebert? Really?? I thought it was common knowledge that Archie Manning was the greatest palyer in team history, despite the lack of success.

    As far as the ranking of our top four guys...
    1. Mean Joe
    2. Franco (Greene puts him on top)
    3. Lambert
    4. Bradshaw (although he was my personal favorite)


  3. #3
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    Re: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    Quote Originally Posted by Flasteel
    Hebert? Really?? I thought it was common knowledge that Archie Manning was the greatest palyer in team history, despite the lack of success.
    Archie had 125 TD's and 173 INT's in his career with 55.2% passing for 23,911 yards.
    Hebert had 135 TD's and 124 INT's in his career with 58.9% passing for 21,683 yards.

    I don't care how bad of a team you were on, if you have nearly 50 more career interceptions than touchdowns, that is pretty darn bad. I think Archie is riding the coattails of his sons, if you ask me. Not that I think Bobby Hebert is any better, though. He's essentially Bubby Brister with more starts under his belt (Bubby had 81 TD's and 78 INT's in his career with 54.6% passing for 14,445 yards). Give me Pat Swilling for the All-Time Saint 107.5 career sacks and an average of just under 11 sacks per season during his career in New Orleans.

    By the way, here are the stats for another team's greatest of all time and a Hall of Famer to boot:

    Namath had 173 TD's and 220 INT's in his career with 50.1% passing for 27,663 yards.

    He the most overrated Hall of Famer of all time in my opinion. He got all the credit for winning Super Bowl III because of some stupid off the cuff "guarantee" when his stat line in that game was a pedestrian 17/28 for 206 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT. The defense won that game by picking off Baltimore QB's 4 times. And if you wanted to pick an MVP on the offensive side, RB Matt Snell was far more impressive than Namath, with 30 carries for 121 yards and 1 TD plus 4 catches for another 40 yards.

    That would be like granting Trent Dilfer legendary status because he won a Super Bowl by passing for 12/25 for 153 yards and 1 TD, 0 INT, when in actuality, his defense picking off Kerry Collins 4 times had a bit more to do with the win than Trent did.
    Steeler teams featuring stat-driven, me-first, fantasy-football-darling diva types such as Antonio Brown & Le'Veon Bell won no championships.

    Super Bowl winning Steeler teams were built around a dynamic, in-your-face defense plus blue-collar, hard-hitting, no-nonsense football players on offense such as Hines Ward & Jerome Bettis.

    We don't want Juju & Conner to replace what we lost in Brown & Bell.

    We are counting on Juju & Conner to return us to the glory we once had with Hines & The Bus.

  4. #4
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    Re: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Give me Pat Swilling for the All-Time Saint 107.5 career sacks and an average of just under 11 sacks per season during his career in New Orleans
    Without knowing the stats, I'd take Sam Mills.

  5. #5
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    Re: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    Mean Joe isn't my #1 fave, but he is the guy who comes to mind first when I think Steelers.

  6. #6
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    Re: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    Quote Originally Posted by RuthlessBurgher
    Quote Originally Posted by Flasteel
    Hebert? Really?? I thought it was common knowledge that Archie Manning was the greatest palyer in team history, despite the lack of success.
    Archie had 125 TD's and 173 INT's in his career with 55.2% passing for 23,911 yards.
    Hebert had 135 TD's and 124 INT's in his career with 58.9% passing for 21,683 yards.

    I don't care how bad of a team you were on, if you have nearly 50 more career interceptions than touchdowns, that is pretty darn bad. I think Archie is riding the coattails of his sons, if you ask me. Not that I think Bobby Hebert is any better, though. He's essentially Bubby Brister with more starts under his belt (Bubby had 81 TD's and 78 INT's in his career with 54.6% passing for 14,445 yards). Give me Pat Swilling for the All-Time Saint 107.5 career sacks and an average of just under 11 sacks per season during his career in New Orleans.

    By the way, here are the stats for another team's greatest of all time and a Hall of Famer to boot:

    Namath had 173 TD's and 220 INT's in his career with 50.1% passing for 27,663 yards.

    He the most overrated Hall of Famer of all time in my opinion. He got all the credit for winning Super Bowl III because of some stupid off the cuff "guarantee" when his stat line in that game was a pedestrian 17/28 for 206 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT. The defense won that game by picking off Baltimore QB's 4 times. And if you wanted to pick an MVP on the offensive side, RB Matt Snell was far more impressive than Namath, with 30 carries for 121 yards and 1 TD plus 4 catches for another 40 yards.

    That would be like granting Trent Dilfer legendary status because he won a Super Bowl by passing for 12/25 for 153 yards and 1 TD, 0 INT, when in actuality, his defense picking off Kerry Collins 4 times had a bit more to do with the win than Trent did.
    I didn't realize that Hebert had more TDs and that many fewer ints, but Manning was the franchise for his entire career there. Hebert had the support of that defense and while Manning got to play with guys like Wes Chandler and Chuck Muncie late in his career, he had nothing for most of it.

    I guess I do remember that town being Hebert crazy for awhile, I just never thought he eclipsed Manning in the hearts of Saints fans.


  7. #7
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    Re: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Mean Joe isn't my #1 fave, but he is the guy who comes to mind first when I think Steelers.
    I agree with you. A fantastic Steeler. As with most Steelers, did things the right way both on and off the field!



  8. #8
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    Re: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozey74
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Mean Joe isn't my #1 fave, but he is the guy who comes to mind first when I think Steelers.
    I agree with you. A fantastic Steeler. As with most Steelers, did things the right way both on and off the field!
    I think the same way except it's Lambert who always comes to mind. For me it's either Lambert or Mean Joe as the "Greatest Steeler of All".
    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust & sweat & blood...

  9. #9
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    Re: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    Lambert always pops into my head too, but Mean Joe seems to beat him and get there first!

  10. #10
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    Re: ESPN's Franchise Players: Best all time for every NFL team

    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Lambert always pops into my head too, but Mean Joe seems to beat him and get there first!
    Well D, you can't go wrong either way

    But for me the Steelers identity begins & ends with defense.
    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust & sweat & blood...

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