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Thread: Parker Critics

  1. #21

    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    The "Parker can't catch" myth needs to go away forever because it's based on people looking at his total catches and thinking, "He doesn't have many receptions so it must be because he can't catch." They seem to forget that 1) The Steelers historically just don't throw to the RB that often, and 2) When the do Parker usually isn't on the field...or he's kept in to pick up the blitz.

    Here's part of a post I made on this topic once before and I think it bears repeating:

    His receiving numbers over his career:
    2004 - 8 games, 3 catches, 16 yards, 5.3 avg
    2005 - 15 games, 18 catches, 218 yards, 12.1 avg
    2006 - 16 games, 31 catches, 222 yards, 7.2 avg
    2007 - 15 games, 23 catches, 164 yards, 7.1 avg

    I don't recall seeing him drop many passes. The Steelers haven't thrown much to the running backs since Bettis was added to the roster. Take a look at his numbers for yourself: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=389

    Here's Fred Macafee: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=152

    Najeh Davenport: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=3663

    Amos Zereoue: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1848

    Tim Lester: http://www.databasefootball.com/players ... LESTETIM01

    Fu: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1567

    Erric Pegram: http://www.nfl.com/players/erricpegram/ ... =PEG358660

    Bam Morris: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... .htm?redir

    You have to go back to John L. Williams in '94 to find a season when the Steelers really threw to the RB: http://www.nfl.com/players/johnl.willia ... =WIL381258

    That's all I can think for RBs of at the moment. I couldn't even find stats on Jon Whitman.

    Shall I continue or can we put to rest the Parker can't catch myth?

    Will Mendenhall change that? Who knows...every time the Steelers draft a TE they say they will throw to them more and it never seems to work out that way...so I have my doubts.
    The links don't work because they can't be cut & pasted since when they were posted they are displayed as truncated links. The links can be accessed in my post in this thread: http://planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewto ... f=2&t=1052

    Now, as for Parker getting the "tough" yards, how do you define tough? Does tough yards mean we need 2 yards and the O line gets one but FWP is responsible for the other or do you define it as FWP is responsible for 2? If your definition is the latter then you're talking about only a small handful of backs who are capable of that. If your definition is the former (as is mine) then I would say that FWP is not nearly as bad as many want to make him out to be. There is no doubt he's not a power back...he doesn't have the physical size to be a power back. That's genetics. But is he a quality back in this league? Absolutely. He takes a pounding and keeps coming back for more. A freak injury in St. Louis probably cost him the rushing title in '07...that certainly accounts for something.

    I suspect if we had an O line on par with the Vikings or Cowboys the Parker critics would be silenced.
    I think that Parker is a tough inside runner. If he was not they would not call those plays. One way that Parker generates power is by the use of his speed and low center of gravity. If the center position was a bit stronger last season that would increase Parker's ability to gain those tough yards. People fail to take into accout that Parker has not run behind a quality Oline in their primes.

    I agree the myth about Parker not being a good pass catcher. Parker can catch the football. Most times they do not call plays for Parker or Ben does not look his way when there is nothing open down field. You cannot blame the OC for not throwing the football to the RBs outside of screens with the other weapons they have to incorporate into the offense. It amazes me that people still do not think Parker can get it done after producing quality numbers over the last 2 to 3 years. After all he was leading the league in rushing before he got injured. That means he had more yards than all of the other RBs in the league behind a worse Oline.

    I must be in the Twilight Zone.

  2. #22

    Re: Parker Critics

    I'm actually blown away by the ranking...

    Seriously... Any of you say you'd take Parker BEFORE Steven Jackson?

    If so, I'd love to borrow those cool black and gold glasses you have.
    Mock 3.0
    1. Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan State
    2. Jordan Matthews, WR, Vandy
    3. Ed Stinson, DE, Alabama
    4. Lache Seastrunk, RB, Baylor
    5. Zachariah Kerr, NT, Delaware
    5a. Shaquille Richardson, CB, Arizona
    6. Marcel Jensen, TE, Fresno State
    6a Greg Blair, ILB, Cincinnati
    7. Kaleb Ramsey, DE, Boston College

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  3. #23
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    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    The "Parker can't catch" myth needs to go away forever because it's based on people looking at his total catches and thinking, "He doesn't have many receptions so it must be because he can't catch." They seem to forget that 1) The Steelers historically just don't throw to the RB that often, and 2) When the do Parker usually isn't on the field...or he's kept in to pick up the blitz.

    Here's part of a post I made on this topic once before and I think it bears repeating:

    His receiving numbers over his career:
    2004 - 8 games, 3 catches, 16 yards, 5.3 avg
    2005 - 15 games, 18 catches, 218 yards, 12.1 avg
    2006 - 16 games, 31 catches, 222 yards, 7.2 avg
    2007 - 15 games, 23 catches, 164 yards, 7.1 avg

    I don't recall seeing him drop many passes. The Steelers haven't thrown much to the running backs since Bettis was added to the roster. Take a look at his numbers for yourself: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=389

    Here's Fred Macafee: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=152

    Najeh Davenport: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=3663

    Amos Zereoue: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1848

    Tim Lester: http://www.databasefootball.com/players ... LESTETIM01

    Fu: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1567

    Erric Pegram: http://www.nfl.com/players/erricpegram/ ... =PEG358660

    Bam Morris: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... .htm?redir

    You have to go back to John L. Williams in '94 to find a season when the Steelers really threw to the RB: http://www.nfl.com/players/johnl.willia ... =WIL381258

    That's all I can think for RBs of at the moment. I couldn't even find stats on Jon Whitman.

    Shall I continue or can we put to rest the Parker can't catch myth?

    Will Mendenhall change that? Who knows...every time the Steelers draft a TE they say they will throw to them more and it never seems to work out that way...so I have my doubts.
    The links don't work because they can't be cut & pasted since when they were posted they are displayed as truncated links. The links can be accessed in my post in this thread: http://planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewto ... f=2&t=1052

    Now, as for Parker getting the "tough" yards, how do you define tough? Does tough yards mean we need 2 yards and the O line gets one but FWP is responsible for the other or do you define it as FWP is responsible for 2? If your definition is the latter then you're talking about only a small handful of backs who are capable of that. If your definition is the former (as is mine) then I would say that FWP is not nearly as bad as many want to make him out to be. There is no doubt he's not a power back...he doesn't have the physical size to be a power back. That's genetics. But is he a quality back in this league? Absolutely. He takes a pounding and keeps coming back for more. A freak injury in St. Louis probably cost him the rushing title in '07...that certainly accounts for something.

    I suspect if we had an O line on par with the Vikings or Cowboys the Parker critics would be silenced.
    I define it as several things...yards in the red zone...can he get 3 to move the sticks on third...etc and so forth. I can care less how the OL is playing...its really not the point. Our OL was not as bad as some make it...run blocking. They can't pass block but they were an above average run blocking team. I want a guy who can find yards when they are there...and when they are not. I want a back that can keep 3rd and long out of the game plan...I want a back that can run in the red zone. I want a back that falls foward. I want a back with vision...patience...natural nack to find holes. Parker is non of these things. I believe Parker could be a terrific complement back...especially if you were to play him late against tired Ds. But, to say Parker is the complete back is very short sighted...especially when you only base it on total yards.

    Talk about unrealistic expectations. You can care less about how the OLine is playing? Ok, funny how people do not say that when Ben is under pressure or takes a sack. Above average with Mahan at center? I do not think you will get many to agree with you on that. Parker does a fine job of finding yards when they are there as evidence by the success he's had. I do not know any RB outside of Barry Sanders that could find many yards when they were not there. No RB in gods green earth is going to keep the team out of 3rd and long. Especially when teams line up too stop that RB. This is what I mean by unrealistic expectations. Parker can run in the red zone. They took him out of the red zone last season to save some wear and tear on his body. They decided to pass in those situations. Fall foward? ok. Parkers vision and patience have gotten better. His vision may not be the best but it is good enough. It seems you want a RB that has not been born or played in the league yet.

    What is a complete back? Parker can do some things better and has room too improve. That goes for every RB in the league. I believe he works hard too get better. Parker is a fine RB that has proven he can get the job done. We are lucky that we have him.

  4. #24

    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    The Sporting News seems to think pretty highly of him.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/vi ... p?t=434762

    4. Willie Parker, Pittsburgh Steelers. , Parker can also hit home runs by flat-out running past defenders.
    .
    With having the most carries per game thru 14 games last year, I just don't remember
    any home runs. I could be wrong.

  5. #25

    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by BURGH86STEEL
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    The "Parker can't catch" myth needs to go away forever because it's based on people looking at his total catches and thinking, "He doesn't have many receptions so it must be because he can't catch." They seem to forget that 1) The Steelers historically just don't throw to the RB that often, and 2) When the do Parker usually isn't on the field...or he's kept in to pick up the blitz.

    Here's part of a post I made on this topic once before and I think it bears repeating:

    His receiving numbers over his career:
    2004 - 8 games, 3 catches, 16 yards, 5.3 avg
    2005 - 15 games, 18 catches, 218 yards, 12.1 avg
    2006 - 16 games, 31 catches, 222 yards, 7.2 avg
    2007 - 15 games, 23 catches, 164 yards, 7.1 avg

    I don't recall seeing him drop many passes. The Steelers haven't thrown much to the running backs since Bettis was added to the roster. Take a look at his numbers for yourself: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=389

    Here's Fred Macafee: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=152

    Najeh Davenport: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=3663

    Amos Zereoue: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1848

    Tim Lester: http://www.databasefootball.com/players ... LESTETIM01

    Fu: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1567

    Erric Pegram: http://www.nfl.com/players/erricpegram/ ... =PEG358660

    Bam Morris: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... .htm?redir

    You have to go back to John L. Williams in '94 to find a season when the Steelers really threw to the RB: http://www.nfl.com/players/johnl.willia ... =WIL381258

    That's all I can think for RBs of at the moment. I couldn't even find stats on Jon Whitman.

    Shall I continue or can we put to rest the Parker can't catch myth?

    Will Mendenhall change that? Who knows...every time the Steelers draft a TE they say they will throw to them more and it never seems to work out that way...so I have my doubts.
    The links don't work because they can't be cut & pasted since when they were posted they are displayed as truncated links. The links can be accessed in my post in this thread: http://planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewto ... f=2&t=1052

    Now, as for Parker getting the "tough" yards, how do you define tough? Does tough yards mean we need 2 yards and the O line gets one but FWP is responsible for the other or do you define it as FWP is responsible for 2? If your definition is the latter then you're talking about only a small handful of backs who are capable of that. If your definition is the former (as is mine) then I would say that FWP is not nearly as bad as many want to make him out to be. There is no doubt he's not a power back...he doesn't have the physical size to be a power back. That's genetics. But is he a quality back in this league? Absolutely. He takes a pounding and keeps coming back for more. A freak injury in St. Louis probably cost him the rushing title in '07...that certainly accounts for something.

    I suspect if we had an O line on par with the Vikings or Cowboys the Parker critics would be silenced.
    I define it as several things...yards in the red zone...can he get 3 to move the sticks on third...etc and so forth. I can care less how the OL is playing...its really not the point. Our OL was not as bad as some make it...run blocking. They can't pass block but they were an above average run blocking team. I want a guy who can find yards when they are there...and when they are not. I want a back that can keep 3rd and long out of the game plan...I want a back that can run in the red zone. I want a back that falls foward. I want a back with vision...patience...natural nack to find holes. Parker is non of these things. I believe Parker could be a terrific complement back...especially if you were to play him late against tired Ds. But, to say Parker is the complete back is very short sighted...especially when you only base it on total yards.

    . Especially when teams line up too stop that RB. quote]


  6. #26
    BIG FAN
    Guest

    Re: Parker Critics

    I must agree with rpmpit on this.
    FWP, as we speak is worth more than our highly touted UNPROVEN draft pick, Russell and Moore put together.

  7. #27
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    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    the problem with people saying that parker isn't good on the goal line is that special needs kids could penetrate the offensive line and disrupt the play in the backfield. Jerome Bettis in his prime wouldn't have gotten yards up the middle with the way Mahan blocks. Hell, God couldn't get yards up the middle with the way Mahan blocks.
    the only player that could block on that O-line last year was Hines Ward!
    I'm with you Birt...while Willie isn't perfect & his vision certainly isn't the best, the fact that the line has stunk it up should make us all appreciate what he has given us the past two seasons. He might have an additional 200 yards per season if the line could hold their blocks longer or keep from being blown off the ball. I look at games like what he did against the Pats & I hope for more, but then I look at games like Arizona & I wonder what's the problem?

    All in all I'm happy with him, but I saw the need for drafting a stud RB this year (I was hoping for Stewart, expecting Forte, but very excited about Mendenhall) to both complement him & be there in the event of injury. Besides...is there any rule against having two good backs?
    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust & sweat & blood...

  8. #28
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    Re: Parker Critics

    MSM - I appreciate you taking the time to define what you mean by tough yards, but it appears as if your definition of tough yards puts it all on the RB and none on the OL. Like I said, if a team needs two yards and the line gets one then a RB who gets the tough yards should get that other one most times (no one succeeds every time). If you expect the RB to always get both then your expectations are completely unrealistic.

    SoD - I don't agree with Parker at 4 but my point was there are people who think more highly of him than some Steelers fans. Just as I don't agree that they put Palmer above Ben in the QB rankings. Overall I think their lists are pretty accurate to what most people think, but with a few tweaks.

  9. #29

    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    SoD - I don't agree with Parker at 4 but my point was there are people who think more highly of him than some Steelers fans. Just as I don't agree that they put Palmer above Ben in the QB rankings. Overall I think their lists are pretty accurate to what most people think, but with a few tweaks.
    fair enough... Ben is top 5, IMO. that's hard to argue... Parker I would remove from the top 5, but, he is top 10...

    I could be included in the Parker bashers.... but, I could also be included in the supporters by others...

    Realistically, he's a solid RB, with a couple of flaws. And unlike many, I don't include power as one of them. He runs HARD...

    Still, I'm hoping Mendy can take his job? Why? Not because I dislike Parker - but, because it would mean he is BETTER than Parker. I also hope Timmons beats out Foote for the same reason. Parker is certainly acceptable... as is Foote. But, I'll always take an upgrade at any position. Just as I rooted for Syracuse to beat out the consistent Clark, I'll also root for Hills to outperform the OTs.
    Mock 3.0
    1. Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan State
    2. Jordan Matthews, WR, Vandy
    3. Ed Stinson, DE, Alabama
    4. Lache Seastrunk, RB, Baylor
    5. Zachariah Kerr, NT, Delaware
    5a. Shaquille Richardson, CB, Arizona
    6. Marcel Jensen, TE, Fresno State
    6a Greg Blair, ILB, Cincinnati
    7. Kaleb Ramsey, DE, Boston College

    2013 MNF Executive Champion!

  10. #30
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    Re: Parker Critics

    SoD - You'll get no argument from me there. I want to see the team get better too. I agree that if Mendy beats out Parker it's because he is better, which is good for the team and good for the fans.

    My only beef is with folks who claim that a guy who has yet to play a regular season NFL down is already better than a guy who's probably going to go over 5,000 yards rushing this season. They can speculate that he'll be better. They can hope that he'll be better. They can predict that he'll be better. But to claim that he is already better is foolishness. It can't be proved.

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