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Thread: Parker Critics

  1. #11
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    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Quote Originally Posted by rpmpit
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Quote Originally Posted by rpmpit
    Not sure why so many of us don't love FWP or think he should be traded?? The guy was leading the league in rushing behind one of the worst o-lines the Steelers have had in a long time. Sure there are things he could do better, but he is definitely a top 5 back in this league and I hope we hold on to him.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see what Mendenhall brings to the table. But for right now, Willie is our starter and I'm happy about that.
    I can't disagree more. Parker is a homerun hitter. IMO, you need a back to do both...run between the tackles...and move the sticks...but also has the speed to take it house. Parker is as much one dimensional as Bettis was...but at least Bettis could get us first downs. You can't have an effective running game, if you can't sustain drives with your running game. I really could care less about the overall yards...it really doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
    Does this mean I'm out of the clique???



    I know what you are saying, Shawn. And I think I argued last year that FWP's yards-per-carry average was skewed by the few long runs he'd have every game. Still, I think he is a quality back and if paired with another rb or fb who can get us those tough third and ones, then I think we will be a dangeous running team.
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    I understand what you are saying...but I guess that would make Parker a great complement back. A premier (top 5) RB shouldn't need another RB to help the team get the tough yards.
    That's a great point, Shawn. And I'm not just saying that 'cause I want back into the clique!

  2. #12
    Hall of Famer ikestops85's Avatar
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    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Did they watch him struggle in between the tackles and in the red zone? Do they realize that he couldn't catch a cold if he lived on the North Pole?
    How many drops did WP have last year? I know Davenport, our former 3rd down receiving back, was on the AFC leaderboard for drops last year with 5. The same number Ward had. I just never thought of Willie as a bad receiver.

    I do agree that WP struggles up the middle ... so why do we call those plays so frequently? Shouldn't Arians be calling plays that take advantage of Willie's strengths instead of his weaknesses? Why not get the ball to Willie in space more so he can hit MORE home runs instead of complaining he is just a home run type of back?

    It's funny because when Willie first got into the lineup the fans were enamored that we finally had a back who could take it to the house. They were tired of all those 3, 4, and 5 yard runs. A 10 yard run for us was few and far between and we complained because we could never break of one of those 50 yard TD runs. Now that we can occasionally get the 50 yard TD runs we want to go back to consistently getting the 3, 4, and 5 yard runs. LT is the only back playing now that can consistently run between the tackles and break off the big run. AP has the possibility of doing it but 1 year hasn't made a believer out of me ... especially since he has proven to be injury prone.

    I like Willie ... a lot ... provided he holds on to the ball. That to me is his biggest detriment. What I don't like is how we utilize him. If we used him in a manner similar to how Philly uses Westbrook I think WP could put up some great numbers.
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  3. #13

    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by rpmpit
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Quote Originally Posted by rpmpit
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Quote Originally Posted by rpmpit
    Not sure why so many of us don't love FWP or think he should be traded?? The guy was leading the league in rushing behind one of the worst o-lines the Steelers have had in a long time. Sure there are things he could do better, but he is definitely a top 5 back in this league and I hope we hold on to him.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see what Mendenhall brings to the table. But for right now, Willie is our starter and I'm happy about that.
    I can't disagree more. Parker is a homerun hitter. IMO, you need a back to do both...run between the tackles...and move the sticks...but also has the speed to take it house. Parker is as much one dimensional as Bettis was...but at least Bettis could get us first downs. You can't have an effective running game, if you can't sustain drives with your running game. I really could care less about the overall yards...it really doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
    Does this mean I'm out of the clique???



    I know what you are saying, Shawn. And I think I argued last year that FWP's yards-per-carry average was skewed by the few long runs he'd have every game. Still, I think he is a quality back and if paired with another rb or fb who can get us those tough third and ones, then I think we will be a dangeous running team.
    (In my famous clique nazi voice) "No clique for you" !!!!



    I understand what you are saying...but I guess that would make Parker a great complement back. A premier (top 5) RB shouldn't need another RB to help the team get the tough yards.
    That's a great point, Shawn. And I'm not just saying that 'cause I want back into the clique!

  4. #14

    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by ikestops85
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Did they watch him struggle in between the tackles and in the red zone? Do they realize that he couldn't catch a cold if he lived on the North Pole?
    How many drops did WP have last year? I know Davenport, our former 3rd down receiving back, was on the AFC leaderboard for drops last year with 5. The same number Ward had. I just never thought of Willie as a bad receiver.

    I do agree that WP struggles up the middle ... so why do we call those plays so frequently? Shouldn't Arians be calling plays that take advantage of Willie's strengths instead of his weaknesses? Why not get the ball to Willie in space more so he can hit MORE home runs instead of complaining he is just a home run type of back?

    It's funny because when Willie first got into the lineup the fans were enamored that we finally had a back who could take it to the house. They were tired of all those 3, 4, and 5 yard runs. A 10 yard run for us was few and far between and we complained because we could never break of one of those 50 yard TD runs. Now that we can occasionally get the 50 yard TD runs we want to go back to consistently getting the 3, 4, and 5 yard runs. LT is the only back playing now that can consistently run between the tackles and break off the big run. AP has the possibility of doing it but 1 year hasn't made a believer out of me ... especially since he has proven to be injury prone.

    I like Willie ... a lot ... provided he holds on to the ball. That to me is his biggest detriment. What I don't like is how we utilize him. If we used him in a manner similar to how Philly uses Westbrook I think WP could put up some great numbers.
    The problem...because Parker is so one dimensional...it's really easy to stop the outside run....if you know its coming. The great backs make a D think about the middle and the edges. Parker could eat his wheaties every morning and never be able to run through the A and B gaps.

  5. #15
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    Re: Parker Critics

    the problem with people saying parker can't catch is that he comes out on passing downs. so he doesn't get the attempts.
    the problem with people saying that parker isn't good on the goal line is that special needs kids could penetrate the offensive line and disrupt the play in the backfield.
    Jerome bettis in his prime wouldn't have gotten yards up the middle with the way mahan blocks. hell, God couldn't get yards up the middle with the way mahan blocks.
    the only player that could block on that O-line last year was hines ward!
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  6. #16
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    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Quote Originally Posted by rpmpit
    Not sure why so many of us don't love FWP or think he should be traded?? The guy was leading the league in rushing behind one of the worst o-lines the Steelers have had in a long time. Sure there are things he could do better, but he is definitely a top 5 back in this league and I hope we hold on to him.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see what Mendenhall brings to the table. But for right now, Willie is our starter and I'm happy about that.
    I can't disagree more. Parker is a homerun hitter. IMO, you need a back to do both...run between the tackles...and move the sticks...but also has the speed to take it house. Parker is as much one dimensional as Bettis was...but at least Bettis could get us first downs. You can't have an effective running game, if you can't sustain drives with your running game. I really could care less about the overall yards...it really doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

    SMG - I'm not quite as harsh as your assessment of FWP but I agree that it seemed that those times when we needed a first down he couldn't get it.

    I know our line stunk up the join last year and I'm ready to see how he plays this year in comparison to Mendy.
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  7. #17
    Hall of Famer ikestops85's Avatar
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    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Quote Originally Posted by ikestops85
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy
    Did they watch him struggle in between the tackles and in the red zone? Do they realize that he couldn't catch a cold if he lived on the North Pole?
    How many drops did WP have last year? I know Davenport, our former 3rd down receiving back, was on the AFC leaderboard for drops last year with 5. The same number Ward had. I just never thought of Willie as a bad receiver.

    I do agree that WP struggles up the middle ... so why do we call those plays so frequently? Shouldn't Arians be calling plays that take advantage of Willie's strengths instead of his weaknesses? Why not get the ball to Willie in space more so he can hit MORE home runs instead of complaining he is just a home run type of back?

    It's funny because when Willie first got into the lineup the fans were enamored that we finally had a back who could take it to the house. They were tired of all those 3, 4, and 5 yard runs. A 10 yard run for us was few and far between and we complained because we could never break of one of those 50 yard TD runs. Now that we can occasionally get the 50 yard TD runs we want to go back to consistently getting the 3, 4, and 5 yard runs. LT is the only back playing now that can consistently run between the tackles and break off the big run. AP has the possibility of doing it but 1 year hasn't made a believer out of me ... especially since he has proven to be injury prone.

    I like Willie ... a lot ... provided he holds on to the ball. That to me is his biggest detriment. What I don't like is how we utilize him. If we used him in a manner similar to how Philly uses Westbrook I think WP could put up some great numbers.
    The problem...because Parker is so one dimensional...it's really easy to stop the outside run....if you know its coming. The great backs make a D think about the middle and the edges. Parker could eat his wheaties every morning and never be able to run through the A and B gaps.
    Then I'm kind of curious how he scored 16 TDs in 2006. Thirteen of them on the ground.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Parker Critics

    The "Parker can't catch" myth needs to go away forever because it's based on people looking at his total catches and thinking, "He doesn't have many receptions so it must be because he can't catch." They seem to forget that 1) The Steelers historically just don't throw to the RB that often, and 2) When the do Parker usually isn't on the field...or he's kept in to pick up the blitz.

    Here's part of a post I made on this topic once before and I think it bears repeating:

    His receiving numbers over his career:
    2004 - 8 games, 3 catches, 16 yards, 5.3 avg
    2005 - 15 games, 18 catches, 218 yards, 12.1 avg
    2006 - 16 games, 31 catches, 222 yards, 7.2 avg
    2007 - 15 games, 23 catches, 164 yards, 7.1 avg

    I don't recall seeing him drop many passes. The Steelers haven't thrown much to the running backs since Bettis was added to the roster. Take a look at his numbers for yourself: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=389

    Here's Fred Macafee: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=152

    Najeh Davenport: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=3663

    Amos Zereoue: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1848

    Tim Lester: http://www.databasefootball.com/players ... LESTETIM01

    Fu: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1567

    Erric Pegram: http://www.nfl.com/players/erricpegram/ ... =PEG358660

    Bam Morris: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... .htm?redir

    You have to go back to John L. Williams in '94 to find a season when the Steelers really threw to the RB: http://www.nfl.com/players/johnl.willia ... =WIL381258

    That's all I can think for RBs of at the moment. I couldn't even find stats on Jon Whitman.

    Shall I continue or can we put to rest the Parker can't catch myth?

    Will Mendenhall change that? Who knows...every time the Steelers draft a TE they say they will throw to them more and it never seems to work out that way...so I have my doubts.
    The links don't work because they can't be cut & pasted since when they were posted they are displayed as truncated links. The links can be accessed in my post in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1052

    Now, as for Parker getting the "tough" yards, how do you define tough? Does tough yards mean we need 2 yards and the O line gets one but FWP is responsible for the other or do you define it as FWP is responsible for 2? If your definition is the latter then you're talking about only a small handful of backs who are capable of that. If your definition is the former (as is mine) then I would say that FWP is not nearly as bad as many want to make him out to be. There is no doubt he's not a power back...he doesn't have the physical size to be a power back. That's genetics. But is he a quality back in this league? Absolutely. He takes a pounding and keeps coming back for more. A freak injury in St. Louis probably cost him the rushing title in '07...that certainly accounts for something.

    I suspect if we had an O line on par with the Vikings or Cowboys the Parker critics would be silenced.

  9. #19
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    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    The "Parker can't catch" myth needs to go away forever because it's based on people looking at his total catches and thinking, "He doesn't have many receptions so it must be because he can't catch." They seem to forget that 1) The Steelers historically just don't throw to the RB that often, and 2) When the do Parker usually isn't on the field...or he's kept in to pick up the blitz.

    Here's part of a post I made on this topic once before and I think it bears repeating:

    His receiving numbers over his career:
    2004 - 8 games, 3 catches, 16 yards, 5.3 avg
    2005 - 15 games, 18 catches, 218 yards, 12.1 avg
    2006 - 16 games, 31 catches, 222 yards, 7.2 avg
    2007 - 15 games, 23 catches, 164 yards, 7.1 avg

    I don't recall seeing him drop many passes. The Steelers haven't thrown much to the running backs since Bettis was added to the roster. Take a look at his numbers for yourself: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=389

    Here's Fred Macafee: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=152

    Najeh Davenport: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=3663

    Amos Zereoue: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1848

    Tim Lester: http://www.databasefootball.com/players ... LESTETIM01

    Fu: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1567

    Erric Pegram: http://www.nfl.com/players/erricpegram/ ... =PEG358660

    Bam Morris: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... .htm?redir

    You have to go back to John L. Williams in '94 to find a season when the Steelers really threw to the RB: http://www.nfl.com/players/johnl.willia ... =WIL381258

    That's all I can think for RBs of at the moment. I couldn't even find stats on Jon Whitman.

    Shall I continue or can we put to rest the Parker can't catch myth?

    Will Mendenhall change that? Who knows...every time the Steelers draft a TE they say they will throw to them more and it never seems to work out that way...so I have my doubts.
    The links don't work because they can't be cut & pasted since when they were posted they are displayed as truncated links. The links can be accessed in my post in this thread: http://planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewto ... f=2&t=1052

    Now, as for Parker getting the "tough" yards, how do you define tough? Does tough yards mean we need 2 yards and the O line gets one but FWP is responsible for the other or do you define it as FWP is responsible for 2? If your definition is the latter then you're talking about only a small handful of backs who are capable of that. If your definition is the former (as is mine) then I would say that FWP is not nearly as bad as many want to make him out to be. There is no doubt he's not a power back...he doesn't have the physical size to be a power back. That's genetics. But is he a quality back in this league? Absolutely. He takes a pounding and keeps coming back for more. A freak injury in St. Louis probably cost him the rushing title in '07...that certainly accounts for something.

    I suspect if we had an O line on par with the Vikings or Cowboys the Parker critics would be silenced.
    I think that Parker is a tough inside runner. If he was not they would not call those plays. One way that Parker generates power is by the use of his speed and low center of gravity. If the center position was a bit stronger last season that would increase Parker's ability to gain those tough yards. People fail to take into accout that Parker has not run behind a quality Oline in their primes.

    I agree the myth about Parker not being a good pass catcher. Parker can catch the football. Most times they do not call plays for Parker or Ben does not look his way when there is nothing open down field. You cannot blame the OC for not throwing the football to the RBs outside of screens with the other weapons they have to incorporate into the offense. It amazes me that people still do not think Parker can get it done after producing quality numbers over the last 2 to 3 years. After all he was leading the league in rushing before he got injured. That means he had more yards than all of the other RBs in the league behind a worse Oline.

  10. #20

    Re: Parker Critics

    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    The "Parker can't catch" myth needs to go away forever because it's based on people looking at his total catches and thinking, "He doesn't have many receptions so it must be because he can't catch." They seem to forget that 1) The Steelers historically just don't throw to the RB that often, and 2) When the do Parker usually isn't on the field...or he's kept in to pick up the blitz.

    Here's part of a post I made on this topic once before and I think it bears repeating:

    His receiving numbers over his career:
    2004 - 8 games, 3 catches, 16 yards, 5.3 avg
    2005 - 15 games, 18 catches, 218 yards, 12.1 avg
    2006 - 16 games, 31 catches, 222 yards, 7.2 avg
    2007 - 15 games, 23 catches, 164 yards, 7.1 avg

    I don't recall seeing him drop many passes. The Steelers haven't thrown much to the running backs since Bettis was added to the roster. Take a look at his numbers for yourself: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=389

    Here's Fred Macafee: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... ayerId=152

    Najeh Davenport: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=3663

    Amos Zereoue: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1848

    Tim Lester: http://www.databasefootball.com/players ... LESTETIM01

    Fu: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... yerId=1567

    Erric Pegram: http://www.nfl.com/players/erricpegram/ ... =PEG358660

    Bam Morris: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... .htm?redir

    You have to go back to John L. Williams in '94 to find a season when the Steelers really threw to the RB: http://www.nfl.com/players/johnl.willia ... =WIL381258

    That's all I can think for RBs of at the moment. I couldn't even find stats on Jon Whitman.

    Shall I continue or can we put to rest the Parker can't catch myth?

    Will Mendenhall change that? Who knows...every time the Steelers draft a TE they say they will throw to them more and it never seems to work out that way...so I have my doubts.
    The links don't work because they can't be cut & pasted since when they were posted they are displayed as truncated links. The links can be accessed in my post in this thread: http://planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewto ... f=2&t=1052

    Now, as for Parker getting the "tough" yards, how do you define tough? Does tough yards mean we need 2 yards and the O line gets one but FWP is responsible for the other or do you define it as FWP is responsible for 2? If your definition is the latter then you're talking about only a small handful of backs who are capable of that. If your definition is the former (as is mine) then I would say that FWP is not nearly as bad as many want to make him out to be. There is no doubt he's not a power back...he doesn't have the physical size to be a power back. That's genetics. But is he a quality back in this league? Absolutely. He takes a pounding and keeps coming back for more. A freak injury in St. Louis probably cost him the rushing title in '07...that certainly accounts for something.

    I suspect if we had an O line on par with the Vikings or Cowboys the Parker critics would be silenced.
    I define it as several things...yards in the red zone...can he get 3 to move the sticks on third...etc and so forth. I can care less how the OL is playing...its really not the point. Our OL was not as bad as some make it...run blocking. They can't pass block but they were an above average run blocking team. I want a guy who can find yards when they are there...and when they are not. I want a back that can keep 3rd and long out of the game plan...I want a back that can run in the red zone. I want a back that falls foward. I want a back with vision...patience...natural nack to find holes. Parker is non of these things. I believe Parker could be a terrific complement back...especially if you were to play him late against tired Ds. But, to say Parker is the complete back is very short sighted...especially when you only base it on total yards.

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