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Thread: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

  1. #1

    If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    2007 TOM BRADY

    PASSNG ATTEMPTS = 578 PASSES TO RB'S = 58
    PERCENTAGES OF PASSES TO RB'S = 10%

    200Y PEYTON MANNING

    PASSING ATTEMPTS = 515
    PASSES TO RB'S = 57
    PERCENTAGE OF PASSES T0 RB'S = 11%

    2007 ROETHLISBERGER

    PASSING ATTEMPTS = 404
    PASSES TP RB'S = 51
    PERCENTAGE OF PASSES TO RB'S = 12%

  2. #2

    Re: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    you know, there are two schools of thought on this, and I would love to hear a more X's and O's view of this, but I would like to see willie use his speed in the open field, instead of leaving him in to block to compensate for the o-line. To me, the time you gain by having him block isn't much more than what you would gain by slipping him three yards past the line of scrimmage and havign Ben check down to him. I would think it would cause the defense to not blitz as much, but again, I would like to hear the opinion of an X's and O's guy.

  3. #3
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    Re: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    Quote Originally Posted by proudpittsburgher
    you know, there are two schools of thought on this, and I would love to hear a more X's and O's view of this, but I would like to see willie use his speed in the open field, instead of leaving him in to block to compensate for the o-line. To me, the time you gain by having him block isn't much more than what you would gain by slipping him three yards past the line of scrimmage and havign Ben check down to him. I would think it would cause the defense to not blitz as much, but again, I would like to hear the opinion of an X's and O's guy.
    it is a great weapon against the blitz and the biggest advantage is to take some pressure off of the o-line which is definetly a must with these stiffs. percentages dont mean much in this case. look at the pass atempts, both manning and brady have at least 100 more than ben

  4. #4
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    Re: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    MSM i could care less who he threw the ball to as long as he checked down to his other options whether it be 3, 4, or 5 on the passing tree. too often he only looks at the first or second option on that tree and tries to force it. but to play devils advocate, there were few times where he had the time to make that progression, so, all things considered you can't complain.
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    Re: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    MSM i could care less who he threw the ball to as long as he checked down to his other options whether it be 3, 4, or 5 on the passing tree. too often he only looks at the first or second option on that tree and tries to force it. but to play devils advocate, there were few times where he had the time to make that progression, so, all things considered you can't complain.
    Ben tries to force the downfield play versus settling for a much shorter positive gain. This is the cause of about 20% of the sacks he took last year--trying to extend plays.

    I had the recording of a couple of the last games and when I rewatched them it seemed that Spaeth had gotten open but Ben never looked in his direction. I counted about 4 times in two games.

    While the percentages may indicate that Ben throws more to his RBs, he has less actual passes and a higher percentage because of a lower overall total thrown. I'm also willing to bet that a high percentage of Ben's passes are designed screens and not actual checkdowns with the RB out in a pattern. The vast majority of the passes that Davenport got (18 last year) and FWP got (23 last year) were designed screens. Percentages can be misleading.
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  6. #6
    Pro Bowler Jigawatts's Avatar
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    Re: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo
    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    MSM i could care less who he threw the ball to as long as he checked down to his other options whether it be 3, 4, or 5 on the passing tree. too often he only looks at the first or second option on that tree and tries to force it. but to play devils advocate, there were few times where he had the time to make that progression, so, all things considered you can't complain.
    Ben tries to force the downfield play versus settling for a much shorter positive gain.


    Blast me if you want, but I'm going to use soccer as a comparison here.

    When I was on the field, I always checked down field for an open man, or an open space.

    When the space was occupied by a defender, usually I'd make a safe pass to my support
    rather than risk turning the ball over down field. The key was to keep possession until
    you could work your way towards the goal.

    I'd like to see Ben "keep possession" by attempting the short passes to the open man
    rather than risk an interception down field when the coverage is there.

  7. #7
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    Re: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Smartmonies
    2007 TOM BRADY

    PASSNG ATTEMPTS = 578 PASSES TO RB'S = 58
    PERCENTAGES OF PASSES TO RB'S = 10%

    200Y PEYTON MANNING

    PASSING ATTEMPTS = 515
    PASSES TO RB'S = 57
    PERCENTAGE OF PASSES T0 RB'S = 11%

    2007 ROETHLISBERGER

    PASSING ATTEMPTS = 404
    PASSES TP RB'S = 51
    PERCENTAGE OF PASSES TO RB'S = 12%
    Heh...I think people missed the point you were trying to make.

    I didn't.

  8. #8

    Re: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo
    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    MSM i could care less who he threw the ball to as long as he checked down to his other options whether it be 3, 4, or 5 on the passing tree. too often he only looks at the first or second option on that tree and tries to force it. but to play devils advocate, there were few times where he had the time to make that progression, so, all things considered you can't complain.
    Ben tries to force the downfield play versus settling for a much shorter positive gain. This is the cause of about 20% of the sacks he took last year--trying to extend plays.

    I had the recording of a couple of the last games and when I rewatched them it seemed that Spaeth had gotten open but Ben never looked in his direction. I counted about 4 times in two games.

    While the percentages may indicate that Ben throws more to his RBs, he has less actual passes and a higher percentage because of a lower overall total thrown. I'm also willing to bet that a high percentage of Ben's passes are designed screens and not actual checkdowns with the RB out in a pattern. The vast majority of the passes that Davenport got (18 last year) and FWP got (23 last year) were designed screens. Percentages can be misleading.
    He has nearly as many passes to the backs with 100 less attempts. If he had more attempts, good chance he would have more passes to the backs. Why all of a sudden would that stop? 400 attempts is more then enough to get a good percentage. Trust me on that.

    Secondly. the plays your referring too. Did Ben complete the passes to another receiver?
    You said he tried to force the ball. But he only threw 11 picks and had 32 TD passes ,. completed 65% of his throws, 67% on third down 8-10. If he forced a throw, and had the numbers above, then their is a good chance that most of the other QB's in the league did even worse. All QB's throw interceptions. ALL QB's make bad reads or miss receivers. You mention matt Spaeth. He's probably like the 4th or 5th read. I don't remember ben getting that kind of time. I could be wrong.

  9. #9
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    Re: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Smartmonies
    2007 TOM BRADY

    PASSNG ATTEMPTS = 578 PASSES TO RB'S = 58
    PERCENTAGES OF PASSES TO RB'S = 10%

    200Y PEYTON MANNING

    PASSING ATTEMPTS = 515
    PASSES TO RB'S = 57
    PERCENTAGE OF PASSES T0 RB'S = 11%

    2007 ROETHLISBERGER

    PASSING ATTEMPTS = 404
    PASSES TP RB'S = 51
    PERCENTAGE OF PASSES TO RB'S = 12%

    Do you have the number of first downs made, total yards and YPA for those passes. It just seems and it could be my imagination that when Ben uses a RB as a check down not many yards are made or first downs garnered.

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    1.15) Ryan Shazier - ILB/OLB
    2.46) Stephon Tuitt - DE
    3.97) Dri Archer - RB
    4.118 ) Martavis Bryant - WR
    5.157) Shaquille Richardson - CB
    6.173) Wesley Johnson - OT
    6.192) Jordan Zumwalt - ILB
    7.215) Daniel McCullers - DT
    7.230) Rob Blanchflower - TE

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  10. #10

    Re: If Only Ben would pass the ball to his RB's

    Quote Originally Posted by Jigawatts
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo
    Quote Originally Posted by birtikidis
    MSM i could care less who he threw the ball to as long as he checked down to his other options whether it be 3, 4, or 5 on the passing tree. too often he only looks at the first or second option on that tree and tries to force it. but to play devils advocate, there were few times where he had the time to make that progression, so, all things considered you can't complain.
    Ben tries to force the downfield play versus settling for a much shorter positive gain.


    Blast me if you want, but I'm going to use soccer as a comparison here.

    When I was on the field, I always checked down field for an open man, or an open space.

    When the space was occupied by a defender, usually I'd make a safe pass to my support
    rather than risk turning the ball over down field. The key was to keep possession until
    you could work your way towards the goal.

    I'd like to see Ben "keep possession" by attempting the short passes to the open man
    rather than risk an interception down field when the coverage is there.
    He only had 11 picks last year Jig.

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