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Thread: Fox Sports Rates the QBs--much better

  1. #31
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    Re: Fox Sports Rates the QBs--much better

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo

    Putting up better numbers isn't winning or helping your teams. Because you are in a pass happy offense doesn't mean anything. Passer rating is a much more accurate comparison. Ben's will be better than Palmer.
    Thanks for walking into that. Here are Carson and Ben's passer ratings for the past three seasons against Top Ten Defenses:

    2007:

    Carson: 6 Top Ten Defenses

    Patriots - 65.7
    Titans - 113.0
    Ravens - 100.3
    Ravens - 91.7
    Steelers - 102.2
    Steelers - 51.6

    Ben: 2 Top Ten Defenses

    Patriots - 86.3
    Ravens - 158.3

    2006:

    Carson: 8 Top Ten Defenses

    Ravens - 52.4
    Ravens - 97.7
    Raiders - 90.0
    Patriots - 78.9
    Steelers - 98.2
    Steelers - 91.0
    Chargers - 131.1
    Panthers - 94.0

    Ben: 5 Top Ten Defenses

    Ravens - 46.2
    Ravens - 47.2
    Jags - 38.7
    Raiders - 61.7
    Chargers - 58.5

    2005:

    Carson: 7 Top Ten Defenses

    Bears - 130.3
    Steelers - 53.8
    Steelers - 101.5
    Ravens - 128.4
    Ravens - 124.6
    Jags - 108.0
    Packers - 102.2

    Ben: 1 Top Ten Defense
    Ravens - 85.0


    The discrepancy between the number of top defenses played between the two quarter backs surprised me when I actually looked up the numbers. 21 for Carson to 8 for Ben...
    It is a season overall not a game here or there. If Carson only has good numbers against good teams he must really suck against bad teams to drop his rating so far. Sounds like a very inefficient, inconsistent QB. Maybe he has a focus problem.
    Playing Fantasy Football does not qualify you to be the in the front office or on the coaching staff of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They are professionals and you are not!

  2. #32
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    Re: Fox Sports Rates the QBs--much better

    Quote Originally Posted by Oviedo
    It is a season overall not a game here or there. If Carson only has good numbers against good teams he must really suck against bad teams to drop his rating so far. Sounds like a very inefficient, inconsistent QB. Maybe he has a focus problem.


    Actually, you do have somewhat of a point there. Personally though I think it's more of a team immaturity than Carson being inconsistant. You see players like Chad get all pumped up to play in Miami or on MNF, but other times he's not focused.

    QB's in general I think are more mature and prepare harder every week. Just watching Ben and Carson in interviews should tell you that...

  3. #33

    Re: Fox Sports Rates the QBs--much better

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Smartmonies
    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnMedGuy

    Last time I checked...passer ratings and stats are indeed facts. Another fact...Ben has been in significantly more playoff games and has won a SB. So, if stats and accomplishments don't determine skill...what does? Please give me some "facts" that would allow us to assess Carsons "skill".
    So you pick at one line if the whole post and focus on that? And semantics nonetheless.

    That comment was made because "passer rating" in the fourth quarter doesnt take into account running the clock out at the end of games or spiking the football. If you look at the actual game logs then you can see how Carson performed.

    So while I agree passer ratings are facts, the actual game logs would be a better indication of how Carson actually did in those games, wouldn't you agree?
    Bengals vs Bills I pick this game cause I can remember losing a bet on the Bengals.

    4th QTR (Bengals up 21 -16 start of 4TH QTR)

    9-R.Lindell kicks 75 yards from BUF 30 to CIN -5. 16-G.Holt, Touchback.
    1-10-CIN 20 (13:54) 9-C.Palmer pass incomplete deep right to 85-C.Johnson (56-K.Ellison, 37-G.Wilson). Pass tipped at CIN 32 by K.Ellison, nearly intercepted by G.Wilson at CIN 37.
    2-10-CIN 20 (13:47) 33-K.Watson right guard to CIN 22 for 2 yards (37-G.Wilson).
    3-8-CIN 22 (13:05) (Shotgun) 9-C.Palmer pass incomplete
    Larson punts

    1-10-CIN 8 (11:24) 32-R.Johnson left guard to CIN 5 for -3 yards (90-C.Kelsay).
    2-13-CIN 5 (10:46) 9-C.Palmer pass short left to 82-R.Kelly to CIN 13 for 8 yards (33-J.Greer, 55-A.Crowell). Caught in flat at CIN 10.
    3-5-CIN 13 (10:0 (Shotgun) 9-C.Palmer pass incomplete
    Larson punts

    1-10-CIN 26 (5:45) 9-C.Palmer pass short left to 33-K.Watson to CIN 38 for 12 yards (55-A.Crowell). Screen, caught at CIN 27.
    1-10-CIN 38 (5:12) (No Huddle) 9-C.Palmer pass incomplete short middle to 16-G.Holt [27-C.Wire]. Underthrown, receiver at CIN 48.
    2-10-CIN 38 (5:0 (No Huddle) 33-K.Watson left guard to CIN 41 for 3 yards (93-A.Hargrove, 37-G.Wilson).
    3-7-CIN 41 (4:26) (Shotgun) 9-C.Palmer pass incomplete short right to 16-G.Holt (24-T.McGee). Receiver and coverage along sideline at CIN 46. Pressure on QB: A.Hargrove.
    Larson punts

    4th possession in 4th QTR , Buffalo now plays prevent

    1-10-CIN 22 (2:14) 9-C.Palmer scrambles right end pushed ob at CIN 29 for 7 yards (55-A.Crowell).
    2-3-CIN 29 (2:06) 9-C.Palmer pass short middle to 86-D.Coats to CIN 39 for 10 yards (93-A.Hargrove; 55-A.Crowell). Caught at CIN 36.
    Two-Minute Warning
    1-10-CIN 39 (1:59) 9-C.Palmer pass incomplete deep left to 85-C.Johnson. CIN-85-C.Johnson was injured during the play. Removed from field on stretcher. Thrown wide of receiver at BUF 38.
    Timeout #3 by CIN at 01:53.
    2-10-CIN 39 (1:53) 9-C.Palmer pass incomplete short middle (97-J.McCargo). Pass batted at line.
    3-10-CIN 39 (1:4 (Shotgun) 9-C.Palmer pass short left to 33-K.Watson pushed ob at BUF 45 for 16 yards (94-A.Schobel). Screen, caught at CIN 34.
    1-10-BUF 45 (1:41) 9-C.Palmer pass short middle to 86-D.Coats to BUF 36 for 9 yards (25-K.Thomas, 93-A.Hargrove). Caught at BUF37.
    2-1-BUF 36 (1:21) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 9-C.Palmer pass short right to 33-K.Watson to BUF 28 for 8 yards (55-A.Crowell).
    1-10-BUF 28 (:56) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 9-C.Palmer pass incomplete short left to 84-T.Houshmandzadeh. Dropped, receiver in flat at BUF 22.
    2-10-BUF 28 (:51) 9-C.Palmer pass short middle to 27-D.Dorsey to BUF 19 for 9 yards (55-A.Crowell). Dump pass, caught at BUF 25.
    3-1-BUF 19 (:29) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 9-C.Palmer pass short middle to 10-M.Maxwell to BUF 14 for 5 yards (33-J.Greer). Slant pattern, caught at BUF 14.
    1-10-BUF 14 (:1 9-C.Palmer spiked the ball to stop the clock.
    2-10-BUF 14 (:1 9-C.Palmer pass short left intended for 10-M.Maxwell INTERCEPTED by 25-K.Thomas at BUF 4. 25-K.Thomas to BUF 12 for 8 yards (10-M.Maxwell).

    Losman kneels.
    Steelers vs. Cardinals.

    Pittsburgh Steelers at 00:46
    1-10-PIT 9 (:46) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep left to 10-S.Holmes (25-E.Green).
    2-10-PIT 9 (:40) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep right to 10-S.Holmes ran ob at PIT 40 for 31 yards (58-K.Dansby).
    1-10-PIT 40 (:32) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to 85-N.Washington.
    2-10-PIT 40 (:26) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 32 for -8 yards (90-D.Dockett, 97-C.Pace). Penalty on PIT-74-W.Colon, Offensive Holding, declined.
    3-18-PIT 32 (:19) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep middle intended for 85-N.Washington INTERCEPTED by 20-R.Brown at ARI 45. 20-R.Brown to 50 for 5 yards (85-N.Washington).
    Arizona Cardinals at 00:06
    1-10- (:06) 7-M.Leinart kneels to ARI 49 for -1 yards.

    END GAME

    No one is perfect. Plus I remember Ben throwing an INT to end the game against us as well in 2006...
    wHAT A jOKE! You started with the last hail mary drive with 46 seconds. You forgot about the one before that.

    .
    1-10-PIT 8 (4:0 (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 39-W.Parker to PIT 20 for 12 yards (94-A.Smith).
    1-10-PIT 20 (3:40) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 83-H.Miller to PIT 31 for 11 yards (58-K.Dansby).
    1-10-PIT 31 (3:1 (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger scrambles left end ran ob at PIT 39 for 8 yards (25-E.Green).
    2-2-PIT 39 (3:11) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep left to 10-S.Holmes pushed ob at ARI 39 for 22 yards (25-E.Green).
    1-10-ARI 39 (3:02) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 85-N.Washington to ARI 30 for 9 yards (58-K.Dansby).
    2-1-ARI 30 (2:35) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to 83-H.Miller.
    3-1-ARI 30 (2:35) (Shotgun) 44-N.Davenport right tackle to ARI 23 for 7 yards (94-A.Smith, 20-R.Brown).
    1-10-ARI 23 (2:04) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger scrambles left end pushed ob at ARI 7 for 16 yards (21-A.Rolle).
    Two-Minute Warning
    1-7-ARI 7 (1:54) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 10-S.Holmes for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

  4. #34
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    Re: Fox Sports Rates the QBs--much better

    [quote=Jom112]
    Quote Originally Posted by stlrz d
    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by "stlrz d":1zfdu9dq
    Chris Henry played in 2005...wasn't that Palmer's best season?
    31 receptions 422 yards and 6 TD's in 2005 for Henry. Like I said we don't need a stud #3 receiver just the same one each week.

    Look at Nate Washington's #'s the last couple of seasons:

    2007: 29 receptions 450 yards 5 TD's
    2006: 35 receptions 624 yards 4 TD's

    So you're telling me Washington is garbage but Carson is luckly to have Chris Henry? Even Cedric Wilson can put up similar #'s to that...
    No, what I'm saying is with Chris Henry opening things up it helps him, as it should any QB, but without Henry...not so much.

    Meanwhile, as has been pointed out on this thread already, Ben has gotten it done even without his starting receivers in the lineup.
    So a #3 receiver that doesn't play every snap opens things up? Believe me Chris Perry was more of the reason why we were successful that season than Chris Henry was. Both contributed but not as much as you would like to believe...[/quote:1zfdu9dq]


    So why was 2005 his best season?

  5. #35

    Re: Fox Sports Rates the QBs--much better

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarletfire1970
    Carson Palmer has had the luxury of working with the same #1 and #2 WRs throughout his career. Ben had Hines and Plax the first year, then Hines and ARE/Wilson the second year, then Hines and Wilson the 3rd year and Hines and Holmes last year. We all agree that Hines is on the downside of his career and until we got Holmes we had no true deep threat after Plax left.

    If you want to use the excuse that it is the defenses fault they can't win games, I watched the games last year. It was the offense that has been struggling. Carson hasn't been the same since his injury.
    Don't forget Health Miller came in Ben's second season as well. A big TE threat is something you guys grossly underestimate. Just see how Carson will utilize Ben Utecht this season.

    I fully expect you guys to complain that it's because Carson got more weapons like Utecht that he does well this season and it's not him. Yet for the past 3 years you guys rarely acknowledge how much Miller has helped Ben...
    Heath Miller caught 39 balls for 459 yards his first year, 34 for 393 his second year and 47 for 566 yards last year. Are you saying he has a bigger impact than Chad Johnson and TJ Housh has had for the Bengals with those stats? While Heath Miller might be a good TE, the Steelers were never a team to utilize that position. Hopefully that will change.

    I won't complain if Carson has a good season this year. I fully expect that he won't though. He hasn't been the same player since his injury. You can make up any excuses you want for him, but watching the games, he doesn't look like the same player.

  6. #36

    Re: Fox Sports Rates the QBs--much better

    Is there any possible way that Carson Palmer could at least win 1 playoff game before
    we have to sit here and listen about how great he is? I mean the guy absolutely sucks on third down and his 4th QTR performances have been dreadful. I really don't care about how many total yards he racks up against Prevent defenses. Win a playoff game, Carson and then maybe we can have a discussion, In the meantime, you haven't
    made any difference in Cincy. they were losing without you , and their losing with
    you. If your so damn good, then carry the team on your back and at least win a playoff game for pete's sake.

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