Carson didn't get it done LAST season on 3rd down. Let's not act like this has been a problem for him his whole career.Originally Posted by Mr Smartmonies
Just wait until Carson lights up the league this season. Keep sleeping on our offense. I'll enjoy seeing Chris Perry (Yeah, Yeah, I know) and Ben Utecht tearing up teams on 3rd downs this season...
Exactly.I have debated this prior with you.... Carson does not produce when it counts. Blame it on the squad around him if you wish, but he doesn't get it done. Actually, he fumbles alot when under pressure to do good. ... Yes, you can quote a few games in which he did well, but on average, he does not... Again, maybe due to his surrounding cast... But Ben does, again to the surrounding cast. But that is what matters in the end.
You can debate facts and stats with Msm till you're both blue in the face, and it will go nowhere because he'll just keep 'em coming.... I simply look at production and final result, however it is done.... Carson falters. Period.
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Jom - as for Manning calling an audible, Pryce was in a 3 point stance and beat his man. It was not a blitz that could be picked up pre-snap. It was a simple matter of Pryce beating his blocker and getting to Ben. Manning, in all likelihood would have been either sacked or would have had to throw the ball away. No way he shrugs of Pryce and makes the play Ben made.
Nice try though.
Carson = vinny testervdeCarson didn't get it done LAST season on 3rd down. Let's not act like this has been a problem for him his whole career.
Just wait until Carson lights up the league this season. Keep sleeping on our offense. I'll enjoy seeing Chris Perry (Yeah, Yeah, I know) and Ben Utecht tearing up teams on 3rd downs this season...
4th QTr Interceptions
1t Carson Palmer Cin 6
1t Trent Edwards Buf 6
1t Damon Huard KC 6
4t Kellen Clemens NYJ 5
4t Chad Pennington NYJ 5
4t Philip Rivers SD 5
4t Sage Rosenfels Hou 5
4t Vince Young Ten 5
9t Jay Cutler Den 4
9t Josh McCown Oak 4
11t Kyle Boller Bal 3
11t Daunte Culpepper Oak 3
13t Derek Anderson Cle 2
13t Charlie Batch Pit 2
13t Brodie Croyle KC 2
13t David Garrard Jac 2
13t Quinn Gray Jac 2
13t Trent Green Mia 2
13t Peyton Manning Ind 2
13t Ben Roethlisberger Pit 2
13t Matt Schaub Hou 2
If you watch it again you see the Ravens put 5 people on the line and fake the blitz. You see someone running towards the line then fake the blitz and run back into coverage. That confused your O-Linemen who tried to block that blitzer and left Trevor Pryce free to get to Ben. Also you guys had a RB in the backfield on that play that had no clue who he was supposed to block.Exactly.I have debated this prior with you.... Carson does not produce when it counts. Blame it on the squad around him if you wish, but he doesn't get it done. Actually, he fumbles alot when under pressure to do good. ... Yes, you can quote a few games in which he did well, but on average, he does not... Again, maybe due to his surrounding cast... But Ben does, again to the surrounding cast. But that is what matters in the end.
You can debate facts and stats with Msm till you're both blue in the face, and it will go nowhere because he'll just keep 'em coming.... I simply look at production and final result, however it is done.... Carson falters. Period.
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Jom - as for Manning calling an audible, Pryce was in a 3 point stance and beat his man. It was not a blitz that could be picked up pre-snap. It was a simple matter of Pryce beating his blocker and getting to Ben. Manning, in all likelihood would have been either sacked or would have had to throw the ball away. No way he shrugs of Pryce and makes the play Ben made.
Nice try though.
Manning gets his linemen ready and works with Saturday to identify blocking assignments. That is where Ben needs to improve.
Also Mahan is just horrible. You guys better hope Hartwig can step up. I'd hate to see Mahan starting again this season. Well I'd love it but you guys probably wouldn't...
Jon , ben Sucks, Ok now that we got that out of the way. I still don't think you get it when it comes to yards per pass. Lets try another way.If you watch it again you see the Ravens put 5 people on the line and fake the blitz. You see someone running towards the line then fake the blitz and run back into coverage. That confused your O-Linemen who tried to block that blitzer and left Trevor Pryce free to get to Ben. Also you guys had a RB in the backfield on that play that had no clue who he was supposed to block.Exactly.I have debated this prior with you.... Carson does not produce when it counts. Blame it on the squad around him if you wish, but he doesn't get it done. Actually, he fumbles alot when under pressure to do good. ... Yes, you can quote a few games in which he did well, but on average, he does not... Again, maybe due to his surrounding cast... But Ben does, again to the surrounding cast. But that is what matters in the end.
You can debate facts and stats with Msm till you're both blue in the face, and it will go nowhere because he'll just keep 'em coming.... I simply look at production and final result, however it is done.... Carson falters. Period.
----
Jom - as for Manning calling an audible, Pryce was in a 3 point stance and beat his man. It was not a blitz that could be picked up pre-snap. It was a simple matter of Pryce beating his blocker and getting to Ben. Manning, in all likelihood would have been either sacked or would have had to throw the ball away. No way he shrugs of Pryce and makes the play Ben made.
Nice try though.
Manning gets his linemen ready and works with Saturday to identify blocking assignments. That is where Ben needs to improve.
Also Mahan is just horrible. You guys better hope Hartwig can step up. I'd hate to see Mahan starting again this season. Well I'd love it but you guys probably wouldn't...
Yards per pass is the most important stat in pro football. Teams that perform well in the yards per pass statistic, most often have the best records at seasons end. General Managers know that improving this stat is critical. (2007 giants be damned) Note, that Defensive yards per pass may be 2nd most important. It's very critical as well, but not nearly as much as offensive yards\per pass.
TEAMS THAT AVERAGED FEWER YARDS PER PASS IN 2007 , THAN PREVIOUS
YEAR (2006) , INCLUDED IS RECORD PERFORMANCE FOR 2007 (+)
REPRESENTS WON MORE GAMES. (-) REPRESENTS LOST MORE GAMES.
(A breakdown of stats is provided at the end)
alex smith (49ers)
2007 = 5.2
2006 = 6.5
-1.3 differential -2 games
Drew Brees (saints)
2007 = 6.8
2006 = 8.0
-1.2 differential -3 games
s mcnair (ravens)
2007 = 5.4
2006 = 6.5
-1.1 differential -8 games
Bulger (rams)
2007 = 6.3
2006 = 7.3
-1.0 differential -5 games
D mcnaab (eagles)
2007 = 6.9 (mcnaab and feeley)
2006 = 7.9 (mcnaab and garcia)
-1.0 diff -2 games
Damon Huard (chiefs)
2007 = 6.8
2006 = 7.7
-.9 differential -.5 games
Phillip rivers (chargers)
2007 = 6.9
2006 = 7.4
-.5 differential -3 games
Carson palmer (bengals)
2007 = 7.2
2006 = 7.8
-.5 differential -1 game
(JETS)
2007 = 6.5
2006 = 6.9
-.4 differential -6 games
(Jets went from 7th best in 2006 in Defensive yards per pass to 25th worst in 2007)
r grossman (chicago)
2007 = 6.3
2006 = 6.7
-.4 differential -6 games
(note: Bears went from #1 in NFL 2006 in defensive yards per
pass, to about 28th worst in 2007)
J.P. Losman (bills)
2007 = 6.9
2006 = 7.1
-.2 diff . same record
mIAMI
2007 = 5.9
2006 = 6.1
-.2 diff -5 games
p manning (colts)
2007 7.8
2006 7.8
----------------------------------------------
TEAMS THAT IMPROVED YARDS PER PASS IN 2007 , AND RECORD
PERFORMANCE (EITHER WON MORE GAMES (+) OR LOST MORE (-)
Garcia (bucs)
2007 = 7.5
2006 = 5.1 (gradkowski)
+2.4 differential +5 games
Tom brady
2007 = 8.6 16-1
2006 = 6.8 10-6
+1.8 differential +6 games
farve (packers)
2007 7.8
2006 6.3
+1.5 differential +5 games
m schaub (texans)
2007 = 7.8
2006 = 6.3
+1.5 differential = +2 games
Derek Anderson (Clowns)
2007 7.2
2006 6.2 (charlie fry)
+1.0 differential +6 games
Garrard (jaguars)
2007 = 7.7
2006 = 6.8 (leftwich & Garrard)
+.9 differential +3 games
Kurt warner (Arizona)
2007 = 7.6
2006 = 6.8 (leinart)
+.8 differential +3 games
cutler (broncos)
2007 = 7.3
2006 = 6.6 (plummer & cutler)
+.7 differential -2 games
v young (titans)
2007 = 6.7
2006 = 6.2
+.5 differential +2 games
Raiders
2007 = 6.4
2006 = 5.9
+.5 differential +2 games
m hasslebeck (seattle)
2007 = 7.1
2006 = 6.6
+.5 differential -1 games
v young (Titans)
2007 = 6.7
2006 = 6.2
+.5 differential +2 games
Roethlisberger (steelers)
2007 = 7.8
2006 = 7.5
+.3 differential +2 games
jon kitna (Lions)
2007 = 7.3
2006 = 7.1
+.2 differential +4 games
t jackson (Vikings)
2007 = 6.5
2006 = 6.3 (B Johnson)
+.2 differential = +2 games
ELI manning (Giants)
2007 = 6.3
2006 = 6.2
+.1 differential +2 games (+.8 dif on the road**) (very strange)
Redskins
2007 = 6.9
2006 = 6.8
+1. differential +4 games
Notes:
No team that decreased their yards per pass average from 2006 to 2007, won more games. Only 2 teams (denver and seattle) Lost more games in 2007 , but yet increased their Yards per pass average.)
Jeff Garcia could have been MVP of the season. They lost 3 out of last 4 when Gruden sat out players. Bucs had only 4 wins in 2006. Look at the yards per pass difference. it speaks for itself.
Ravens only at 5.4 YPpass. You just can't win with that kind of number.
Dallas is ommitted due to Romo taking over halfway thur 2006.
Ken Whisenhunt really has a problem. Warner is much more efficient than Leinart. Efficiency wins games. Efficient doesn't mean completing a high percentage of 5-6 yard passes. Efficiency means Moving the ball the furthest in the least amount of throws. Hence , yards per pass stat.
Roethlisberger was at 8.9 1st two years. Only QB to be listed twice on the all time single season for highest yards per pass. This guy is really good. many have no clue how good. (for the record Otto Graham leads all QB's with 11 yards per pass average. Steve young leads all Modern day Qb's with 8.0 career avg.) Roethlisberger is at 8.1 for his career so far.
Randy Moss was deserving of MVP. Just look at the yards per pass average for Brady in his career and compare that to last year. 98 vikings and 2007 pats most prolific single season offenses.
Both had Moss on the field. Is Titans QB Vincy young permitted to have any weapons? Just asking...
The browns won 10 games last year. They made significant upgrades in the offseason. And Vegas sets their Over / under win total for upcoming season at 8?? Interesting...
Finally, Improving one's yards per pass doesn't necessarily mean replacing the QB or WR's. sometimes fixing the offensive line makes the QB work more efficiently and in return bumps up the YPA average.
Excuses. You don't see me making excuses for Carson's offseason knee surgery do you?
Because Ben was an idiot that offseason, he gets a free pass? If he wasn't ready to play then he should have sat back and let Charlie Batch lead the team. Batch already proved he can win games with your team. If Ben was that messed up then why didn't he take more time to rehab instead of making the whole team suffer?
Also if it's because of the bike then why did he throw 9 interceptions in the 2nd half of the season? 12 INT's since November. This isn't golf we're talking about you don't get any mulligans. If he wasn't healthy by November then why the heck did he return to play in September?
Frank Gore was hurt and ran for 500 yards less. That I would argue was the bigger reason for the -2 games. Alex Smith stinks regardless.
Again Duece McCallister was hurt almost the whole season. Bush couldn't do squat.
Again Steve McNair was hurt and only played in 6 games. Of course the team will do worse with Kyle "Garbage" Boller and Troy Smith
Once again Steven Jackson was hurt, which hurt the team more than Bulgers Yard Per Pass.
Garcia > Feeley. I'm sure there are plenty of stastics not just Yard Per Pass that would prove that.
Another team who had a top RB go down with injury. That is what effected the W/L record.
Transition to a new offense. Once it was picked up the team started rolling.
Yet again, RB injuries. When you're on your 4th string RB you should expect to lose more games. In this case one more game.
The Jets surprised everyone in 2006, everyone (Besides Peter King) knew they were in for rude awakening in 2007.
Brian Griese played in a good amount of games. Plus the lost Thomas Jones and were stuck with the ineffective Cedric Benson.
Nothing really I have to say here.
Again nothing much I have to say here.
Yards Per Pass was the same and yet the Colts win the SB in 2006 and don't in 2007. I think that says a lot more than any of these stats.
Alright, I'm tired now. Your turn again...
Could it have been the apendectomy, or concussion?.... He wasn't ready physically to play that season... It started bad and ended bad. ... It is what it is. Sound familiar?
...He returned because he is a fighter. That, and the coaching staff allowed it (which was wrong IMO).
Now you're just becoming annoying in your attempt to over simplify things.
Ben obviously was not 100% in 2006 but insisted on playing. As the season wore on he took a beating. So he was less than 100% at the start of the season...and went downhill from there. But like a true competitor he kept fighting.
I seem to recall that season having a pretty good ending though.
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