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Thread: C.P.

  1. #11
    Hall of Famer costanza2k1's Avatar
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    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozey74

    Just keep on keepin on brotha
    ours is not to wonder why just invert and multiply...

  2. #12
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    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Bottom line is that Ben is better.... If you wish to place blame on thier O-line, WRs', etc..., well, then so be it. But bottom line is that Ben is getting the job done more so than Carson.
    Solid argument, I won't deny that. But is it Ben that's getting it done more than Carson or is it the Steelers TEAM that is getting it done more than Carson?

    Here is how the Teams rank in terms of passing offense since Carson and Ben took over:

    2007: Bengals #7, Steelers #22
    2006: Benagls #6, Steelers #9
    2005: Bengals #5, Steelers #24
    2004: Bengals #17, Steelers #28

    And here are the rushing offense numbers for that same timeframe:

    2007: Bengals #24, Steelers #3
    2006: Bengals #26, Steelers #10
    2005: Bengals #11, Steelers #5
    2004: Bengals #17, Steelers #2

    As I stated earlier both QB's are really good fits for their respective teams. The Bengals are best when their passing game is strong and their running game is at least decent. The Steelers on the other hand are best (Like in '05) when their running game is strong and their passing game is just decent. When the Steelers get pass happy like they did in '06, they failed to reach the playoffs.

    Also it's eaiser to have better numbers when you pass less than 300 times a year. Which is why I have given Ben a lot of credit after what he did this past season. Last season was the first time that Ben threw more than 300 times and the team was successful. Now the question is can Ben repeat that?

    After Peyton and Brady it's Palmer and Ben. They will always be tied at the hip and I think both will be solid QB's for the next several years...


    NOTE: This is just a statical response to a statistical argument. Obviously injuries, ST, defense, SOS, high gas prices and other factors come into account...

  3. #13
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    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by proudpittsburgher
    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by Les 74

    No,if I was looking for attention,I would do something retarded like this:
    I think I'll start treating you the same way I treat all annoying little kids (And please tell me your not out of high school yet). I will start ignoring you.

    When you stop being annoying and actually post something even slightly to what the thread is about you can rejoin in the conversations...
    Post is titled C.P., which, in the context of this discussion referrs to Carson Palmer. True, the thread is not titled "C.P. the homo" (which he is, btw ), which i clearly shown in the picture, but he is indeed what this thread is about. Sooooooo, he actually DID post "something even slightly to what the thread is about". Now move on, junior!
    Reading is fundamental.

    The key word is my response was the word "AND". If LesTool74 stops being annoying AND he posts something of relavance then I will no longer treat him like an infant.

    As for yourself, if you want to talk football then come and bring it...

  4. #14
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    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    When the Steelers get pass happy like they did in '06, they failed to reach the playoffs....
    '06 was really not a fair indicator of Bens' production, and was more of an anomoly to his record... He had the accident, which took away not only his strength but also his prep time before the season. Then the apendectomy, which set him back further.

    But yes, it is the team. But who runs the team?...The quarterback.

    The Steelers have long since had a strong rushing attack, so they have naturally played to thier strengths. Just as the Bengals have done with thier passing game. I really don't think anyone on this board would argue that Ward, Washington, and Ced could compare to what Johnson, T.J., and Henry have done in recent years.

    But as to the actual comparison, it is a bit of apples and oranges. However, success and production of the overall group also reflects the qb who leads them. I know that you do not agree with this, but I really feel that Carson is calm cool and collected until it gets to crunch time, then falters. Ben has demonstrated the ability to win under pressure evidenced by his playoff record. Even when he played somewhat poorly in the playoffs, he kept it together enough to win.

    Just my .

  5. #15
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    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    When the Steelers get pass happy like they did in '06, they failed to reach the playoffs....
    '06 was really not a fair indicator of Bens' production, and was more of an anomoly to his record... He had the accident, which took away not only his strength but also his prep time before the season. Then the apendectomy, which set him back further.

    But yes, it is the team. But who runs the team?...The quarterback.

    The Steelers have long since had a strong rushing attack, so they have naturally played to thier strengths. Just as the Bengals have done with thier passing game. I really don't think anyone on this board would argue that Ward, Washington, and Ced could compare to what Johnson, T.J., and Henry have done in recent years.

    But as to the actual comparison, it is a bit of apples and oranges. However, success and production of the overall group also reflects the qb who leads them. I know that you do not agree with this, but I really feel that Carson is calm cool and collected until it gets to crunch time, then falters. Ben has demonstrated the ability to win under pressure evidenced by his playoff record. Even when he played somewhat poorly in the playoffs, he kept it together enough to win.

    Just my .
    This is where we differ. You look at the Denver game, Carson drove us down the field and we scored a TD to come within one. It's not his fault if Brad St. Louis had a bad snap. Carson played very well against a tough defense in a tough atmosphere.

    Then against Pitt at the end of '06. Carson drove us down and setup a very makeable field goal for Graham. Unfortunately Graham missed. Again Carson did what he had to and led the team effectively.

    Carson on some other occasions did have some situations where he couldn't get it done but that happens with ALL qb's. I remember Ben trying to lead the Steelers down the field against us in the final minutes of a game and ended up throwing an INT to end it. Those things happen.

    I don't think Carson falters at the end of games (Although he does need to improve on holding onto the football), but the team has a whole does need to improve at finishing games. That also includes Marvin and the coaching staff and their ability/inability to effectively manage a game.

    Now I have a question for you NK, do you think that Ben really is the leader of the Steelers? Carson was voted by the team as a captain of the offense. Even with players like Willie Anderson and TJ on the team. Ben even after his best season didn't get the team MVP award which went to Harrison. Do you think the players on the Steelers offense line up behind him and follow his lead?

  6. #16
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    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Now I have a question for you NK, do you think that Ben really is the leader of the Steelers? Carson was voted by the team as a captain of the offense. Even with players like Willie Anderson and TJ on the team. Ben even after his best season didn't get the team MVP award which went to Harrison. Do you think the players on the Steelers offense line up behind him and follow his lead?
    Actually, I do... From the very beginning when he had to step in for Maddox, and the comment by Faneca about a "rookie qb", it was obvious to quite a few of us. He may not have the stellar arm of a Carson Palmer, but has the will of a pitt-bull to get it done and produce a win. Unfortunately, sometimes it is his undoing, but he is getting much better at it. In his second year, he took a backseat to Jerome and his emotional final run. The following season was just an injury debacle... And last year, while Ben did have an impressive season, Harrison basically took charge of the defense and shut down opposing teams. ... Ben is now basically stepping out of others' shadows and running the show. It really is very obvious when you listen to him, compared to three years ago or so.

    Carson deserved his accolades. He stepped in with "Mr. Universe" numbers from USC, and as a poster boy of good behavior. But if he is out of a game due to injury, the Bengals are much less of a threat. Ben has been injured and Batch did a fairly presentable job of keeping the wheels on the cart. Do not mistake this for a weakness by Ben, but it is a demonstration of a more well-rounded team IMO.

  7. #17
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    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Actually, I do... From the very beginning when he had to step in for Maddox, and the comment by Faneca about a "rookie qb", it was obvious to quite a few of us. He may not have the stellar arm of a Carson Palmer, but has the will of a pitt-bull to get it done and produce a win. Unfortunately, sometimes it is his undoing, but he is getting much better at it. In his second year, he took a backseat to Jerome and his emotional final run. The following season was just an injury debacle... And last year, while Ben did have an impressive season, Harrison basically took charge of the defense and shut down opposing teams. ... Ben is now basically stepping out of others' shadows and running the show. It really is very obvious when you listen to him, compared to three years ago or so.

    Carson deserved his accolades. He stepped in with "Mr. Universe" numbers from USC, and as a poster boy of good behavior. But if he is out of a game due to injury, the Bengals are much less of a threat. Ben has been injured and Batch did a fairly presentable job of keeping the wheels on the cart. Do not mistake this for a weakness by Ben, but it is a demonstration of a more well-rounded team IMO.
    The thing I've noticed the last several years with the Bengals, is that when healthy we have a team that can "compete" with the best of them. We have some really good talent but when some key players go down everything falls apart.

    We don't have the depth that other great teams like NE or Indy have. I finally see the team improving in that respect. Drafting a top LB in Keith Rivers instead of relying on Odell to come back and make an impact is a good indication of this coaching staff finally getting it...

  8. #18

    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by proudpittsburgher
    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by Les 74

    No,if I was looking for attention,I would do something retarded like this:
    I think I'll start treating you the same way I treat all annoying little kids (And please tell me your not out of high school yet). I will start ignoring you.

    When you stop being annoying and actually post something even slightly to what the thread is about you can rejoin in the conversations...
    Post is titled C.P., which, in the context of this discussion referrs to Carson Palmer. True, the thread is not titled "C.P. the homo" (which he is, btw ), which i clearly shown in the picture, but he is indeed what this thread is about. Sooooooo, he actually DID post "something even slightly to what the thread is about". Now move on, junior!
    Reading is fundamental.

    The key word is my response was the word "AND". If LesTool74 stops being annoying AND he posts something of relavance then I will no longer treat him like an infant.

    As for yourself, if you want to talk football then come and bring it...


    Yet another retarded troll spewing more utter nonsense.Get a different shtick,moron.

  9. #19
    Hall of Famer Iron Shiek's Avatar
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    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Actually, I do... From the very beginning when he had to step in for Maddox, and the comment by Faneca about a "rookie qb", it was obvious to quite a few of us. He may not have the stellar arm of a Carson Palmer, but has the will of a pitt-bull to get it done and produce a win. Unfortunately, sometimes it is his undoing, but he is getting much better at it. In his second year, he took a backseat to Jerome and his emotional final run. The following season was just an injury debacle... And last year, while Ben did have an impressive season, Harrison basically took charge of the defense and shut down opposing teams. ... Ben is now basically stepping out of others' shadows and running the show. It really is very obvious when you listen to him, compared to three years ago or so.

    Carson deserved his accolades. He stepped in with "Mr. Universe" numbers from USC, and as a poster boy of good behavior. But if he is out of a game due to injury, the Bengals are much less of a threat. Ben has been injured and Batch did a fairly presentable job of keeping the wheels on the cart. Do not mistake this for a weakness by Ben, but it is a demonstration of a more well-rounded team IMO.
    The thing I've noticed the last several years with the Bengals, is that when healthy we have a team that can "compete" with the best of them. We have some really good talent but when some key players go down everything falls apart.

    We don't have the depth that other great teams like NE or Indy have. I finally see the team improving in that respect. Drafting a top LB in Keith Rivers instead of relying on Odell to come back and make an impact is a good indication of this coaching staff finally getting it...
    Well drafting character-less players will do that to your franchise. This is not another Bengal bashing thread about all the arrests (don't get me wrong I make fun of it all the time) but at some point waaaaay in the past they shouldve realized they are mortgaging their future drafting these idiots and it puts you in a hole because you aren't getting the most out of your draft. Couple that with dude breaking his neck and other injuries, and you have the ineptness that is the Cincinnati Bungles. Sorry to say it, but that is how it is. Never will be winners until the ownership takes things seriously. People wonder why Chad acts the way he does...well there you go.

    Oh and

    http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo156/shiek2134/SHIEK.jpg?t=1299014285

  10. #20
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    Re: C.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Shiek
    Quote Originally Posted by Jom112
    Quote Originally Posted by NKySteeler
    Actually, I do... From the very beginning when he had to step in for Maddox, and the comment by Faneca about a "rookie qb", it was obvious to quite a few of us. He may not have the stellar arm of a Carson Palmer, but has the will of a pitt-bull to get it done and produce a win. Unfortunately, sometimes it is his undoing, but he is getting much better at it. In his second year, he took a backseat to Jerome and his emotional final run. The following season was just an injury debacle... And last year, while Ben did have an impressive season, Harrison basically took charge of the defense and shut down opposing teams. ... Ben is now basically stepping out of others' shadows and running the show. It really is very obvious when you listen to him, compared to three years ago or so.

    Carson deserved his accolades. He stepped in with "Mr. Universe" numbers from USC, and as a poster boy of good behavior. But if he is out of a game due to injury, the Bengals are much less of a threat. Ben has been injured and Batch did a fairly presentable job of keeping the wheels on the cart. Do not mistake this for a weakness by Ben, but it is a demonstration of a more well-rounded team IMO.
    The thing I've noticed the last several years with the Bengals, is that when healthy we have a team that can "compete" with the best of them. We have some really good talent but when some key players go down everything falls apart.

    We don't have the depth that other great teams like NE or Indy have. I finally see the team improving in that respect. Drafting a top LB in Keith Rivers instead of relying on Odell to come back and make an impact is a good indication of this coaching staff finally getting it...
    Well drafting character-less players will do that to your franchise. This is not another Bengal bashing thread about all the arrests (don't get me wrong I make fun of it all the time) but at some point waaaaay in the past they shouldve realized they are mortgaging their future drafting these idiots and it puts you in a hole because you aren't getting the most out of your draft. Couple that with dude breaking his neck and other injuries, and you have the ineptness that is the Cincinnati Bungles. Sorry to say it, but that is how it is. Never will be winners until the ownership takes things seriously. People wonder why Chad acts the way he does...well there you go.

    Oh and

    C'mon, Sheik...it's always a good time for another Bengal bashing thread about all the arrests!

    As posted in another thread over on the main Steeler board:

    For the second straight season the Bengals had more off-field arrests than wins last year. At least they are a consistent bunch.


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